HomeVoices4 Reasons This Christian Family Supports Marriage Equality
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Sheena Haqrtgill
I’m a lesbian in a loving I’m a lesbian in a loving comited civil union. Iam also a Christ follower. I feel so blessed when my hetrosexual brothers and sisters seek to know the truth of God’s love and when in so doing they come to see that my choice of life partenar is no threat to them that in thruth we want the same thing that all will come to know the Lord Jesus as their personal saviour. Thank you,for it is true Christians like yourselves that make it possible for me to go on telling my gay brothers and sisters that Christ really does love them.
Andy
Sheena, didn’t Jesus call us Sheena, didn’t Jesus call us to both love and obedience (“If you love me, you will obey what I command” Jn 14:15)? Sexual purity (including a clear repudiation of homosexuality) was clearly one of those commands!
Nick Sikeuz
Ok; you claim to follow Ok; you claim to follow Christ. But do you believe that God wants you to turn away from your sins? In that case, you should try to rid yourself of sin, and hate your sin. Just because we are saved by grace people think that they can continue in their sin. (Romans 6) Again in Romans, Paul tells us that the world has been given over to sin. One of these sins is homosexuality (Roman 1). The gospel is important, but so are the marks of the true christian. (Romans 12) The fact that you persist in sin even though you know it to be very well to be sin shows that you have no faith. It is one thing to have desires for someone of the same sex, and it is quite another thing to have desires for someone of the same sex and shamelessly act out on them. As christians I am called to love you, but that means telling you that the route you are persisting down leads to condemnation in front of the Kings of Kings.
Matt
As Christians it’s best not As Christians it’s best not to decide what is a sin and what isn’t based on your personal feelings but rather look to the Bible for instructions. The Bible is very clear on homosexuality. (As far as your straw-man argument on what you feel is not so clear I reference you to Galatians 3: 23-25)
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NKJV)
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
That is as clear as it gets. There is noting gray about that. If you are saying homosexuality is acceptable in God’s eyes after reading that then you are either deceived or unwilling to accept God’s word.
What does the Bible say about supporting homosexuality?
Isaiah 5:20- Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
I agree we should treat homosexuals with love just as we should treat lustful heterosexuals with love, but don’t confuse that with encouraging sin.
Joy
Do you read Biblical Hebrew Do you read Biblical Hebrew or Greek? This is a translation, and a very poor one at that!
Emmily
Thank you, Matt, for having Thank you, Matt, for having the courage to speak the truth and not cave to popular opinion. The bible is so clear on homosexuality, but when people don’t want to believe it, they scramble for every illogical excuse and fabricated doctrine to continue in their sin. They are only hurting themselves. This life is very short compared to eternity.
Drew Hellams
Matt, I’m sorry to hear about Matt, I’m sorry to hear about your proof-texting the Bible. This is precisely why Jesus was reprimanding the Saduccees. Your ‘clarity’ and certainty are based on something so fragile: translation. Culturally, homosexual acts were significantly different from now. Perhaps that is not a good enough argument for you. Then let us explore the word here: malakois. This idea can mean effeminate or a catamite, a boy kept for homosexual practices by an adult (a concept we can all agree is wrong). If you pull one word out of Paul’s list you must read them all equally. Take porneia (pornoi), for example, a male prostitute or fornicator (two entirely different ideas). Jesus is clear that if you have lusted in your heart then you are guilty. This means any man who watches TV, browses the internet or sees any advertisement while ambulating is equally guilty of not inheriting the kingdom. Sexual immorality is ubiquitous and unavoidable as sex is the foundation of American capitalism. By buying goods that use sex in their advertising you are supporting sexual immorality. What about thieves and robbers? Have you drank a cup of coffee lately or eaten a piece of chocolate? Do you shop at Wal-mart and other discount stores? If (inevitably) so, you have stolen from the hard work of underpaid farmers/employees and more importantly participated in the largest institution of slavery that has ever existed in human history. We support child slavery in much that we do. By being a westerner, you necessarily fit into this list–unless of course, you are Amish, et al. The point is that none of us deserve a thing from God. In the midst of our seeming ‘total depravity’, God provides [prevenient] grace through the witness of Jesus and the beckoning of the Holy Spirit. Even the pope understands Matt 7.1: “Judge not, lest you be judged.” Live by the law–>die by the law. Is that your strategy? The grace that Christ attested to is that the law is not a good indicator of one’s nearness to God. I pray that you will leave legalism behind and embrace the grace that Christ extends to ALL persons.
daril
again, you should look again, you should look towards historical context. i believe that the chorinthians verse you are re-ferring to is a special hebrew term that means a very unique relationship that and old man would have with a teenage boy. the translation isnt flawless because we dont have the same relationship as that anymore.
Alyssa
Keep in mind that with 1 Keep in mind that with 1 Corinthians 6:9, the word for “homosexuals” there was translated two different ways in the New International Version of the Bible (one was “homosexual offenders”, the other “perverts”). The original ancient Greek word is arsenokoitai, a compound word for “male” and “bed”. In the passage you quoted, St. Paul was listing many common sins among the Greeks, such as idolatry and theft (both of which are mentioned in the passage). Also consider that in ancient Greece, it was not uncommon for married men to have sex with male youths. Side note: this laundry list of vices is also used in 1 Timothy 1:10, and arsenokoitai was used there as well.
It is important for all people to consider the context and culture in which the Bible was written. It is not only a spiritual text, but a historical one. Delve deeper than the words, and you will certainly find a deeper faith. I did. Pray on it.
Martha
Wow Matt! I would love to Wow Matt! I would love to meet you personally. I’ve never met anyone in my life who was not guilty of ONE of those things you mention…fornicator, idolater, adulterer, homosexual, sodomite, thieve, coveter, drunkard, reviler, or extortioner. You must truly be a saint if you’ve never “coveted” something, or stolen something. And yes, by thievery, if you take it for its true meaning, that includes a postage stamp from work.
Victor
I appreciate your passion to I appreciate your passion to understand the Bible, Matt! That passion seems to be in short supply these days. Especially among those who claim to know God.
I’ve done a lot of diligent studying myself, and over the course of nearly half a year, God has exposed to me several things in the Bible that are often misinterpreted. The words Paul uses in his letter to the Corinthians that have been translated as ‘homosexuals’ and ‘sodomites’ were words that were not established Greek words at that time. In fact, educated scholars have discovered that the word translated as ‘homosexual’ was a word that Paul seemed to have made up. According to modern scholarship, more accurate translations of those two words would be ‘man who owns boy sex slaves’ and ‘male prostitute’.
As a young gay Christian myself, I feel I do not fit the description of a sex slave owner or a prostitute. I’ve never had sex and I strongly oppose the usage of sex slaves. The love of my life agrees.
When studying the Bible, I believe it is vital to study the culture and context in which the verses were written. Paul says many things that seem to contradict when you isolate the verses. But when reading in context, these things flow nicely together. Jesus himself asked people why they didn’t chose for themselves what was right. And Paul once said that something that seems right for one person may seem wrong for another. Paul says that if you don’t follow your conscience, you are making a mistake.
As a young gay man, I have a relationship with Jesus. My conscience tells me that what Jesus said about treating others the way you want to be treated, and basically how Jesus acted toward the minority, should be applied to all of our lives. My conscience tells me that my love for my other half is righteous and natural. In the words of Paul, what may seem natural to you might not seem natural to others.
As I said before, your passion for the Bible is commendable. If you wish to dig further into the texts, I highly suggest studying the culture of those times. I began studying that way five months ago and my relationship with Jesus has grown stronger because of it.
God bless! Hope you have an awesome day. (:
L
READ INMPORTANT
This was beautiful to read jesus came to our earth to save us from sin no matter who you are and what your personality is all that matters to mee is
– do you know who jesus is
– do you know what was done to save us from sin
– are you ready to surrender your heart to our lord to live a beautiful peacefull everlasting life
– do you live for the world or for jesus
theres many more but no christian on earth can ever scold a gay christian for i have found out who my lord jesus christ is i am absolutely ready to surrender my heart to him to be able to walk in the promise that was promised to me by my lord so the gays who probally will go to hell is the ones who rejected our christ chose to live in sin and who chose the materialistic sick pleasures that played in the world so you can be any race any color but deep down in us sinners is a true beliver my lord will accept me in the heavens even if i have to give up my sexuality the world is temporary but our god is everlasting if you are a true beliver you know in your heart if your going to be saved or not have faith jesus and god and the holy spirit is doing everything they can to gather the church god bless to all but the devil wont be having me in his burn party – L from florida
ps. keep praying , keep speaking the word of the lord and never lose faith god loves everyone !!!!!!1
Casey
It’s interesting that you It’s interesting that you quote a version of the Bible that flat out says homosexuality since that word didn’t exist until the 1900’s. I somehow doubt it was actually in the Bible.
Yes the Bibile does talk about same sex relationships, but you have to look at them in context of the time. Galileo was put under house arrest for going against biblical teachings and saying the earth rotates around the sun because this went against what the Bible clearly states, we now now the earth very much goes around the sun so we have to reconsider what scripture means.
Interracial marriage was illegal in nearly every state because it went against the bible, but as we have accepted it is cruel to tell interracial couples their love is inferior we reintrupet the scripture.
So, we need to understand that in the time the Bible was first writen it was not believed that two people of the same sex could participate in a monogamous relationship. It was believed that same sex relationships were caused by an overflowing of lust. It was believed all people could engage in sexual encounters with either sex but would only do so if they had an excess of kits and therefore were not satisfied with the opposite only.
We now know this is not the case and there are people who are committed and monogamous in same sex relationships and not attracted to the opposite sex and just too full of lust. Given that know leg it is irresponsible to not look at the scripture with a new heart.
Pastor, Casey
Blake
For those who are arguing the For those who are arguing the scriptural basis for same-sex marriage relationships being sinful, perhaps this link would be helpful.
It really breaks down the 6 individual passages that are used to discuss this topic in the world today and shows how things might not be as we think (including the use of the translated word ‘homosexuals’ in this list, which did not exist in any translation before 1946).
No one is saying you should read it and change your mind. Just read it to know the other side before putting someone else down and being quick to say they’re wrong because they differ in theology from you. A good discussion is always better when one knows both sides.
Matt, your interpretation of Matt, your interpretation of Paul’s words is offensive. My son, who is a homosexual, and who loves Jesus, and who is blessed by God (in the way of answered prayers and having God’s favor in many ways), is not an adulteror, drunkard, extortionist, etc. He is full of love and grace and kindness. You sir, are misguided and flat out wrong. The bible (new testament) also says women shouldn’t preach over men. Just think of Joyce Meyer….her ministry is blessed blessed blessed. Wow…what if we really took it at face value, instead of what Paul is talking about….all lust, greed, and selfishness…no LOVE.
Michelle…You are only Michelle…You are only offended because you cannot see the topic from an unbiased viewpoint. I get that this is emotional for you because you have a family member who is homosexual. However, there is no love in allowing people to continue down the path to destruction. Being comfortable in this life at the expense of eternity is not wise. The verse quoted in Corinthians isn’t saying that a homosexual necessarily has all those other sins as well. It is merely a list of the sins that are offensive to God and which will cost us eternal life if we continue in ANY of them. Homosexuality is just one of those sins. The most loving thing you can do for someone who has those feelings is to show them why they mustn’t act on them. There are a lot of people apart from homosexuals who have to develop some self-control over their emotions, so as live in a way that is pleasing to God. These days everyone thinks it is OK to have sex with anyone anywhere. But God doesn’t condone that, as we can see from that verse. He doesn’t approve of sexual immorality or adultery. This is a call to all of us to clean up our act. And, if we are not married, then we are not supposed to be having sex at all.
Darriell
Michele, what Mike is saying Michele, what Mike is saying is truth and scriptural. If we rely on our biases to conclude truth, then truth becomes relative and not absolute. Jesus said, I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man comes to the Father but by Me. (John 14:6) His words tell us of God’s love for us individually as well as collectively. However, Jesus said we must deny ourselves and take up our cross and follow Him. I appreciate Mrs. Long’s effects to affirm homosexuality, but her view as a Christian isn’t biblical. I love people in general, but saying someone is a gay is like saying someone likes toast. Being gay shouldn’t define who you are, the Bible says born again believers are a new creation, one which does not live according to the formal lust (I Peter 1:14) I feeling sympathy for believers who wrestle with sexual orientation. However, the church should not affirm gay marriage in the church, because legislators have pushed the agenda. It is our firm conviction the Bible is truth and if we are Christian’s, then our willingness to avoid sin at all cost should be our primary focus. Matthew isn’t being offensive, he’s speaking the truth.
Matt
Michele, I’m sorry you find Michele, I’m sorry you find God’s Word offensive. The heart of the problem is you do not find God’s Word to be the absolute truth. You have allowed your love for your son to blind you from what the Word says. You say your son is “is full of love and grace and kindness” and “not an adulterer, drunkard, extortionist, etc.” but what you are looking past is homosexuality is just another sin lumped into the group of sins mentioned in 1 Cor 6:9 that will keep you from heaven.
You mention love several times in your reply, and this may come off brash but its the truth, and this is what makes ALL the difference.
Homosexuality is not about love, its about sex.
Homosexuality is not about love, its about sex
(yes I put it twice to emphasis that important truth)
Homosexuality is never mentioned in the Bible in the context of love, it is always mentioned in the context of sin, specifically sexual sin.
Leviticus 18:22
22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
Leviticus 20:13
13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.
Romans 1:26-28
26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. 28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.
1 Corinthians 6:9
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality
1Tim 1:10
8 Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, 9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers,liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.
Homosexuality is a sex act.
Definition of HOMOSEXUALITY
1: the quality or state of being homosexual
2: erotic activity with another of the same sex
There is nothing wrong with a man loving a man, I have many men in my life that I love and there is no problem with that in God’s eyes. Why is that? ‘Cause there is no sex involved. Its the sex that makes the difference and that is what makes it sin.
Brie
Oh Matt, my heart breaks Oh Matt, my heart breaks reading your post. Your last paragraph is completely irrelevant. You love your male friends; as a friend. Obviously you are straight…my assumption is that you would never dream of, or have a desire to have sex with your male friends, even though you love them, because you are straight. You don’t know what it “feels” like, so you cannot, in ANY way, make that statement. Also, if there is any hope for the Christian church to do things right, your entire comment would turn away any LGBT person. “Christians” have messed up Christianity so incredibly much from what Jesus ever intended Christianity to be. Just like I do, you are picking and choosing in your life what to take literally and what not (Read; The Blue Parakeet). I know there is nothing I could say, or anyone could say to you to change your heart, only God can do that. But in even writing that last comment, you are turning away LGBT and their family from Jesus. And that is NOT what Jesus calls us to do. I am a worship leader, a Jesus-lover, and a girl who cannot stand the way the church has become. It is people like you that don’t remember that their is a living, breathing and active God behind and in front of the scripture. It’s a scary thing for people to encounter, because it is a scary feeling to even QUESTION that what you may have been taught, or believe your entire life could potentially not be accurate. So, instead…Christians pick and choose what is comfortable for them, instead of stepping into the deep waters, into the complexity of Christ, but also the simplicity that He came back to whip us in shape and LOVE everyone. And no – “hating the sin, loving the sinner” does not work. It only pushes people away. I really wonder what our world would be like if we actually followed the “red letters” of the Bible [Jesus’ words], love people, accept that we don’t know everything and never will until after our life here, and LET God take care of everything else including the heart and soul of everyone He created, like He should…what a different place this would be.
Andy
Brie, didn’t Jesus call us to Brie, didn’t Jesus call us to both love and obedience (“If you love me, you will obey what I command” Jn 14:15)? Sexual purity (including a clear repudiation of homosexuality) was clearly one of those commands!
Beth
Brie, Brie,
Your last paragraph has really hit home with me. I am struggling right now to find a church home for my family and for me that isn’t preaching what Matt has written. My children go to a very conservative Christian school and while they are learning to love the Lord and are saved…they are also are struggling (as am I) to find a place of worship that is open and accepting of the gay community. It is important to us since my sister is gay and we feel like hypocrites if we are sitting in a place of worship that thinks that she is full of sin and would not welcome her into their home.
Here is my question… The Lutheran church is open and accepting but the liturgical structure is so different and not as full of praise as we have known. Do we go to the Baptist church and PRAISE our LORD but also know their philosophy does not match with ours or head back to the Lutheran church? Have you found a church family that supports your Christian views? Thanks!
Pam
Check out the United Church Check out the United Church of Christ, Beth. I think you will find what you ate looking for there. I love my UCC family.
Bryce
Mat never said he hated Mat never said he hated anyone… He has many valid points! We only hate the sin, not the sinner… Homosexuality is a sin whether or whether not you agree. The bible has never been proven wrong.. so obviously it’s better to follow the bible, follow christ than it is to follow words of some person on the internet speaking false scripture on the bible.
Matt
Matt, you are so right on. I Matt, you are so right on. I’m not sure when people starting thinking that the Bible teaches things like “openness”, “equality” and “acceptance”. The God I know care’s more about rescuing us from sin than making us feel warm and cozy while we slowly die in it. Last I heard, Jesus came to save us from our sins… not to ensure we all had equality.
Keep up the good fight.
Ben Gay
Matt, Matt,
I am a gay Christian who tried much of my life to think as you preach, only to fall into depression and spite for God. Eventually I had to decide that accepting myself, with the freedom to have a relationship, was the only way to find peace with Christ, which is ultimately the only way to Heaven. Set many of your modern versions of the Bible aside and read the more ancient interpretations. Homosexuality, as we know it today, is never even used. It was the biased, modern translators who inserted it as a substitute for unclear words or phrases–don’t forget that that the Bible was written in Hebrew, not modern English.
I will pray for you Matt. That is the best advice I can give.
Kathy Raudabaugh
Homosexuality is not about Homosexuality is not about sex. When my son was 5, he was clearly homosexual and he didn’t know what sex was. Where the bible addresses homosexuality it is in the context of gang rape and idol worship. When two men are in love with each other rape and idolatry do not even enter into the picture. The verses you quote in Leviticus prohibit many more things such as wearing 2 different types of fabric together, which I’m certain you are guilty of yourself. When you quote Romans, you start at “for this reason…” This has always troubled me as a mother of a gay child. For what reason? My son never made birds or animals and worshipped them! The reason is idolatry plain and simple! When Paul wrote this letter to the Romans, there were sex orgies at the altar of worship to other Gods, made in the form of animals and praised. Men were having sex with other men as a form of worship. This is not the same context as someone who is born with more x then y genes and attracted to the same sex. What about 1 Corinthians 6:9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? — have you ever done wrong? Do some more homework!
Theresa fleer
You need to make sure you You need to make sure you interpret the Bible correctly, and not just to push your own beliefs. The original Greek and Hebrew that the Bible was written in NEVER uses the word homosexual . If you do not correctly interpret the bible, you would still be sitting in a church that separates the sexes, men would still have concubines, your child would be stoned when he disrespected you, and you would be an abomination to God if you ate your shrimp and lobster…make sure you know what you are saying..don’t be so holy you can’t touch the sinner next to you…you are only saved by the grace of God…nothing of your own..study the scriptures to find yourself approved of God….know the language it was written, the time and for whom.
Robin
Matt:) I am a lesbian in a Matt:) I am a lesbian in a very long term committed relationship. Sex is the lowest item on my agenda. I love my partner heart and soul and if we never had sex again, I would still love her. We are christians that believe in God. People have a right to their opinions- I certainly support that. Just as you want the right to your opinion, so should you respect those who don’t agree with you. I believe God created us all equally, with love. I live everyday in service to others. My life is blessed beyond belief. Be careful about judging others- I’m pretty sure that is also mentioned in the bible as a “sin”.
Jessica
You are an idiot and You are an idiot and obviously didn’t understand what she is saying. The bible flat out condemns all these things. Yet oh no, it’s okay, but homosexuality is the only thing that isn’t. You are taking the word homosexual way out of context. You do know that words from that long ago don’t hold the same meanings they do today. That homosexual most likely referred to prostitution and pedophilia and not consenting loving male and male relationships.
Katie
Matt, Matt,
You are so sweet, and I appreciate how you left this comment. As a duty for being a Christian, our love for others should be to help them. Love is not just about acceptance, is it? That’s why we are nice to people even if we don’t agree. However, true love is about helping others realize their mistakes. If not, is our mother or father’s love for us only based on feeling? Or is it on action? I want people who love me to call me out and tell me what I do wrong. If they don’t, they don’t love me.
Go you. My friend, MERGAN, reads this too and agrees. We are encouraged that people like you are still alive, and continue to voice your true opinions. We can’t let people control us. As Christians we have to be set apart, and you rock.
Sincerely your sisters in Christ,
Mergan & Kate
Zack
Great job on standing strong. Great job on standing strong. Homosexuality is a sin. I am going against homosexuality in my argumentative essay at school. Please pray for me.
Brad
Matt, you are hand picking Matt, you are hand picking things out of that scripture to make your point, just like most Christians that are against gay marriage. If you say “that’s as clear as it gets”, then that means you are also saying all liars will go to hell (yourself included, because you lie every single day, just like everyone else). So saying that homosexuals are going to hell is very misguided. I am not the most religious person in the world, but I am a follower of Christ. I say follower of Christ instead of Christian, because I believe the powerful love Jesus has for ALL OF HIS CHILDREN is stated pretty clear in the bible as well. His love, the blood he shed, his life he gave conquers ALL sin! Which, in the bible, it says that all sin is the same in the eyes of God. So if you say homosexuality is a sin because “the bible says so”, then you must also believe that homosexuality is exactly the same as a married man lusting over a beautiful woman, and I’m guessing you don’t think that man would go to hell for having lustful thoughts, now would you? Quit contradicting yourself, you can’t keep using that argument, and you can’t have it both ways. Either everything the bible says is to be taken literal, and everyone goes to hell because “we all fall short of the glory of God”, or, the blood of Christ is strong enough to save everyone from eternal damnation. In my humble opinion the blood of Christ washes away all of my sins (and the sins of my homosexual brothers and sisters in Christ). In your opinion it doesn’t, but that’s all it is, your opinion. Quit using God’s word to promote your bigotry, your hate, and your injustice. God bless
Zack
I am happy to see that I am happy to see that someone else is standing strong on Biblical truth.
Marlana
If you want to be taken If you want to be taken seriously, go back to the NEW testament. Not the outdated Old testament (which you seem to love to quote), from before the time of Jesus. What is offensive is YOUR interpretation of the bible that you seem arrogant enough to believe is the correct one.
I sure hope you’ve never had premarital sex. Because if you have, God sees all sin as equal, and that would make you as bad as two adults of the same gender having consensual sex. Or are you the exception?
Steven
Homosexuality is just about Homosexuality is just about sex? I’m sorry but what it means to be gay is to have an attraction to someone of the same sex the same way heterosexuals are attracted to each other.
And also those verses are misleading as they are often read out of context or mis interpreted.
Notice how you are quoting in English? That sir is a translation.Let’s try reading it in the original Greek shall we?
in the 1 cor and tim passages the word homosexual has only been used in quite recent translations.
The original word is aresonokoitai and another one commonly translated as homosexualty would be malakoi. There are debates over the meanings of these words but is believe to be those who bought the services of young underage effeminate boys, a common practice back then.
The reason any possible reference to homosexuality refers to sex and not love is maybe because it is not a sin to have a intimate relationship with someone of the same gender. but in those days it was very common for men to do sex acts together in worship of heathen gods,or in temples and other pagan practices. that is a big difference to what we understand today as same sex attraction.
Mattanza
Matt, please… you ought to Matt, please… you ought to take a minute to reconsider such an embarrassing argument. You’re a victim of ATP, a state of mind you can so easily fall into based on your upbringing that you fail to understand how actually see for yourself what might not be the case on such a topic as this.
The concept of sexual orientation is a very recent one. It means: “a person’s sexual identity in relation to the gender to which they are attracted; the fact of being heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual.” In short, what feels natural to us as people in forming a relationship with someone. Being gay is most certainly not a choice. If it were a choice, we wouldn’t have so many LGBT people in the world raped by heterosexual men and women in attempt to “cure” them, as they so repugnantly assert. I feel genuine pitty for people such as yourself, as you fail to realise that even if it were a sin, it’s one that God can still easily erase fro your record when Jesus is accepted as lord and saviour. As it is not sin whatsoever, you need to learn to admit defeat instead of trying to take us all back to the Stormont Days of Old. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezQjNJUSraY
Andy
Unfortunately for Holli, the Unfortunately for Holli, the best biblical parallels for homosexuality are not divorce, slavery, or dietary restrictions, but other sexual sins like incest, adultery and bestiality. Should Christians welcome and celebrate those too? Isn’t that being truly inclusive? Does Jesus champion those people as well? GLBT advocates recast Jesus in their own image, ignoring his calls for holiness and his utter rejection of sin. Jesus elevated the sexual standards of his day to an even higher standard than many of the Pharisees (Mt 19). His words to the woman caught in adultery are instructive: “Neither do I condemn you, but go and leave your life of sin.” You are free to advocate for so called “marriage equality” all you want, but you call the gospel into disrepute by hitching your wagon to Jesus and his teachings.
Sarah
God is the same yesterday, God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. You are attempting to change his laws to accommodate our world today. Homosexuality is mentioned multiple times in the Bible so it something that was clearly important and not something that can be ignored or looked over. The Old Laws that you mentioned such as eating shrimp or a rebellious son and were given to the nation of Israel, not to Christians. However, homosexuality is mentioned multiple times outside of this so it does not fall into this category.
As for someone with a son that is homosexual– If you had a son that had a problem with a sin such as stealing, would you justify that it was okay because they were a good person inside? Wouldn’t you instead pray for them and help them to understand why stealing is wrong rather than support and encourage the sin?
I am not trying to convince non-Christians that homosexuality in wrong but felt that I can say this since you say you are a Christian. I will also continue to love all those I come in contact with. However, Christians should obey what God has instructed and take a stand for what the Bible says.
Jessica
Oh please sarah you’re a Oh please sarah you’re a nutcase. Jesus messages are not to judge and to love. And it def. seems like you are doing one more than the other. Homosexuality is mentioned I believe seven times. That’s not a lot. That’s barely anything. The bible also says to stone your children among a bunch of other things. Like not wearing mixed fabrics. What makes one rule something you’re allowed to follow and another you’re not. And stealing is choice. Being gay has been proven to be something you are born with. Your comparisons lack critical thinking. Homosexuality doesn’t mean the same thing back when the bible was written as it does today. As the author adressed it was most likely refering to prostituion and pedophilia hence, all your statements are null and void.
Ruth
Actually, I would like to Actually, I would like to politely counter your argument, Sarah. In contrast, perhaps not the entirety of the Bible was written by Christ himself, or interpreted in a differing way that he meant in, and therefore not precisely what he actually said. Not that I’m here to undermine the holy book, for that is never my intent. But I have to side with Holli, if we did not accommodate to the world today. If not, then you would be equal to that of an object, being and woman, I assume from your name, if you are a man, I apologize for the confusion, but I also assume that you yourself would not want to be treated that way? As God does believe in equality, does he not? And the argument she gives as well is that perhaps homosexuality is not a sin. As well as those verses and points in the Bible you quoted are very widely interpreted, some believed to be about rape as well. As a further example, if we are following old times directly, then the Pope himself has the final say of how Christians should live their lives, what God wants, and being the Pope means he believed by the Church and worldwide Christians to be the most educated man on the subject of Christianity and best fit to be the leader and messenger of God. And he himself believes in the acceptance and equality of LGBT. An example, he stated “Gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgenders have much to offer to the Church. They should be accepted with open arms as they are.” He has given many speeches on the topic all supporting, not just being nice to homosexuals, but accepting that it is not a sin in the eyes of God. Again, I know it is difficult to tell over text, but I say this with the upmost respect for you and your opinion, and I am in no way attempting to begin a fight, demean you, tell you that I know everything, nor can I tell you that God has come to me personally and told me exactly what is right and what is wrong. This is simply my humble opinion,and just happens to be in contrast with yours. But I greatly appreciate how king you are in your words, and what an open-minded and compassionate person you appear to be. Your opinion was in no way rude or forceful, and you even offered to love someone no matter their sexuality. I think you are a role model for many Christians who believe it is a sin, being the way they get their message across often is garish and hateful. I agree with you strongly that all people should be welcomed, even if they have different beliefs. How awful would it be if we were all separated, we would be full of hate and evil work the hands of the devil, so to speak. 😉 It is so very nice to speak with someone so sensible and respectful on the subject 😀
Holli, thanks for writing Holli, thanks for writing this. I, too, am a Christian who is a supporter of our call to love everyone by and through God. I am also a strong supporter of equal rights for both constitutional and biblical reasons.
To those commenting on specific biblical passages and taking them as the hard a fast, word-for-word literal truth, I believe there is a failure on your part to really evaluate the entirety of God’s message. Holli is not selectively dismissing parts of the word of God. Instead, she is approaching it from a holistic, bigger picture viewpoint that takes the entire message of the Bible into account. And even this holistic view is only a fraction of what God knows and understands and is limited to the understanding of the men who wrote it to begin with.
That said, we are not intended to know/understand everything. We are not intended to decide who is ‘deserving’ of God’s love. We are not intended to ‘heal’ people of their sins, whatever they may be. Our job, as God’s children and followers, is to plant a seed of love and acceptance. Our job is to spread the word of His love and to encourage others to come closer to Him. It is as simple as the old children’s saying “What Would Jesus Do”. The answer to that is simply to love and provide a way for others to discover and experience that love. If there is healing to be done, God will facilitate it through our love towards others.
It saddens me that there are so many Christians out there who shun and turn others away. I do believe that, for even the murderers and other wrong-doers in the world, we should find a way to love and forgive them and teach them about God, even if the only way to love is through Jesus’s heart rather than our own. If Jesus resides in each of us and we are called to be his hands and feet, we should love and forgive all as best as we can in the hopes that Jesus’s love through us helps to heal them.
I would encourage everyone to approach both your feelings about homosexuality as well as the case for homosexual marriage from the bigger picture – that we are to love all and that, by denying marraige to any two people who are in LOVE (homosexuality is NOT just about sex), we are limiting the constitutional and natural rights of those individuals in this country.
That guy
Marriage shouldn’t be in the Marriage shouldn’t be in the government agenda as it is a non-profit member agreement. Government only cares about corporate-person asset merging and that should be retained to civil union. Let this idiotic conversation of what marriage should be stay within the confines of the different churches and non-governmental organizations. We have child sex traffic, debt, impending wars, starvation, genocide, and corruption that are mildly more pressing than whether you can file your taxes with you partner or not. This nation is a collection of chickens fighting over a piece of grain.
amber
Thanks That Guy. We have Thanks That Guy. We have bigger pressing problems than picking on one that doesn’t hurt anyone. It is a private choice around a positive thing…love. What about war, homelessness, child abuse? What about the things that hurt masses of people. Leave homosexuals alone. Let’s face it…that’s about your personal fear and frankly it is ridiculous! There’s nothing worse than the self-righteous Christian. Its up to God to judge that. Mind your own business.
Shannon Smith
How on earth can you possibly How on earth can you possibly justify a statement like “Homosexuality is not about love, its about sex”? Just because you don’t feel that way about men? You can repeat it as many times as you want– it’s still ridiculous.
Matt
Shannon, it is very simple Shannon, it is very simple and there is nothing ridiculous about saying “Homosexuality is not about love its about sex”. You simply can not define what homosexuality is without the word sex. It has nothing to do with how I feel towards men, it just the truth. Take away the sexual aspect of it and there is no homosexuality.
Here are a couple definitions for you from Merriam-Webster dictionary-
Definition of HOMOSEXUAL
1: of, relating to, or characterized by a tendency to direct sexual desire toward another of the same sex
2: of, relating to, or involving sexual intercourse between persons of the same sex
Definition of HOMOSEXUALITY
1: the quality or state of being homosexual
2: erotic activity with another of the same sex
As you can see there is nothing mentioned about love, it is about sex.
Beth
Definition of HETEROSEXUAL Definition of HETEROSEXUAL
1
a : of, relating to, or characterized by a tendency to direct sexual desire toward the opposite sex
b : of, relating to, or involving sexual intercourse between individuals of opposite sex
2
: of or relating to different sexes
— het·ero·sex·u·al·i·ty noun
— het·ero·sex·u·al·ly adverb
As you can clearly see by your own reasoning, Matt, for heterosexuality also there is nothing mentioned about love, it is about sex. Take the sexual aspect out, and there is no heterosexuality either.
Petra
Matt, Andy, Sarah, Nick, Ryan Matt, Andy, Sarah, Nick, Ryan, Emmily, you’re taking the verses out of the historical context. At the time Paul was alive, there was no concept of homosexuality. The Bible’s clobber passages were written about same-sex acts between heterosexual persons, and do not address the subject of homosexual acts between a committed gay couple, because the concept of a person being homosexual did not exist at the time the Bible was written. During the time in which the New Testament was written, the Roman conquerors of the region frequently and openly engaged in homosexual acts between themselves and boys. Such acts were also common between Roman men and their male slaves. These acts of non-consensual sex were considered normal and socially acceptable. They were, however, morally repulsive to Paul, as today they would be to everyone, gay and straight. You can’t push today’s definition of homosexuality on a text that was written before the concept of being attracted to only the opposite gender existed.
The bible is clear that excessive, exploitative, and non marital sex is sinful. By barring gays from getting married, you’re actively encouraging them to sin, and then blaming them when they do.
Taking the Bible out of its historical context and/or cherrypicking verses has enabled ‘Christians’ in the past to protest the civil rights movement as well as a woman’s right to vote. Don’t be one of those people.
Angela
You do realize the definition You do realize the definition of heterosexual also has nothing to do with love either.
Jaya
Matt. You keep saying that it Matt. You keep saying that it cannot be defined any other way but what you are failing to see is that words are made up AND defined by HUMAN BEINGS. Not to mention you are using the wrong word. Homosexuality is not used to define the nature of a relationship. It is used to describe a person. A homosexual is one who finds their sex more attractive than the opposite sex. Heterosexuality is defined using sex as well. Never have you heard some one say “Wow that couple is so heterosexual/homosexual!” when they were trying to describe just how much people love each other because its just not a term used to describe the feelings in an intimate relationship shared between two human beings. Stop saying homosexuality is only based on sex because of its definition. Homosexuality does not describe how a person feels it describes what they find attractive.
Elizabeth
The problem is, there’s still The problem is, there’s still a lot of cherry-picking in these readings of the Bible. What about the passages in the Bible that condemn the eating of shellfish, and having body piercings? And as Holli mentioned in her original post, what about the passages of the Bible that talk about putting children to death if they are disobedient, or other laws that specifically condone slavery?
If you’re going to preach against homosexuality based on a few passages from the Bible, then you also shouldn’t pierce your ears or allow your children to pierce their ears, and for Heaven’s sake don’t eat bacon. You also need to sacrifice an animal every time you sin. And slavery is fine, as long as you don’t own one of your fellow countrymen. Also, you can’t trim your beard in a specific way, and people with a physical handicap shouldn’t be allowed in church. So if you were born paraplegic, don’t even think about attending church, because if you do, you’re going to offend God.
But wait, you say, Jesus’ death was the beginning of the new Covenant, a new agreement. That means we don’t need to worry about those things anymore. It’s good and fine to eat at Red Lobster now, and since our sins are covered by the blood of the Lamb, we don’t have to spend our time and money maintaining sacrificial herds for the next time we utter a swear word.
Christians also justify no longer following the old Testament laws because many of those laws were practical for the time, but we don’t have to worry about such things in this time and place, i.e., it is impractical to raise moisture-loving pigs when all you own is sand and a tent and you live in the desert, and it’s easy to get sick from shellfish if you don’t know how to prepare it properly.
But the problem with using both of these arguments in conjunction with the condemnation of homosexuality is that you’re still employing the use of a pick-and-choose system. We have chosen to adhere to the laws that are convenient for us, or laws that don’t give us that “squick” factor. We choose to be okay with people trimming (or even shaving!) their beards, we choose to be okay with pierced ears, we choose not to kill our children if they are disrespectful, and we choose to preach against homosexuality.
Read through Leviticus, and you will find a huge slew of laws that nobody follows today. Yet out of all of those laws, the condemnation of homosexuality is one of the few that has stuck throughout modern Christianity. We have come to an age where we recognize that people should have basic human rights, so no, you shouldn’t allow your child to be stoned to death if they back-talk you, even though the Bible says you should, and no, you can’t have a slave, even if the Bible says you can. But it’s okay for you to tell gay people that what they do is wrong, and forbid them from being together. That starts to look like you’re just picking passages out of the Bible that support your personal discomfort with homosexuality.
The other thing is, you can’t compare homosexuality to things like thievery, incest, bestiality, adultery, rape, or pedophilia, because in these instances, the sinner is committing a crime or a sin against an unwilling party. That’s what sin is about–hurting yourself or other people. The opposite of “do unto others what you would have them do unto you”. Whenever we sin, whenever we hurt someone, we are making a decision to hurt someone else for our own gain, however small or large that gain may be. Sin is about being selfish, valuing your needs over the well-being of someone else.
But the thing is, homosexual couples are comprised of two consenting adults. There is no victim and perpetrator here, as there is with a thief and her victim, or a rapist and his victim. You have two people who want to be together. It isn’t as if gay people are out there trying to “convert” straight people. Homosexual people seek out other homosexual people for relationships.
Gay couples are in their relationships for the same reason that straight people are–because they want to be in a relationship with each other, because they have found something special in each other. And just because sex is a component of gay relationships, that doesn’t mean that sex is the only thing that the relationship is about. Just because the media often has a bad habit of portraying gay men as these flamingo-feathered glittery sex machines, that doesn’t mean that all, or even most, gay men adhere to this formula, and to judge an entire group of people by the actions or representations of a few is a gross oversimplification. That’s like saying all black people are lazy because you once saw a black person taking a nap.
If gay relationships were only about sex, then why would so many gay couples want marriage equality? Why get married if all you’re going to do is have sex? You do not have to be married in order to successfully have sex. Marriage is something you do when you and your partner want to commit to each other for the rest of your lives. If all gay couples wanted was to have sex, they could do that without the hassle of fighting publicly for marriage equality. Marriage is about commitment and love, two very important values. It seems like Christians should be supportive of that.
Don’t get me wrong. I am all for people believing in what they want to believe. That’s part of what makes America so great–the freedom of belief. But if you want other people to respect your religious viewpoints, then you need to respect theirs, or the lack thereof, and this means you can’t restrict the right of gay people to get married just because your interpretation of the Bible says that homosexuality is bad.
jo
Holli, I appreciate your Holli, I appreciate your openness and loving beliefs. The rest of you are also entitled to your beliefs all can argue the Biblical/Christian beliefs/values/laws with Holli all day long. As far as The United States of America is concerned, all people are created equal and should have equal rights under the law. The US Constitution mandates freedom of religion and separation of church and state for all of its citizens. I am not required to follow Christian law and am Constitutionally protected from having to do so.
Amy L
Thank you for sharing your Thank you for sharing your thoughts about this issue. I’m a Christian, but am ashamed of how the LGBT community is being persecuted by the mainstream Christian community. I feel like shouting “What Would Jesus Do?!”, because I have no doubt that He would LOVE his neighbors.
Nick
Thank you Sarah for being Thank you Sarah for being well versed in the words of the Lord. It is not up to us to say what is right or wrong, God has already done that for us. I love all sinners because we are all sinner, so how can I say I love my brother in christ if I do not help him with the sin in his life, no matter if it is lying, cheating, stealing, or being homosexual. I feel sad Holli that you can not see the true meaning of God’s word. And as a christian I can not see how you could get the views you have from reading the same bible that I read. I pray that one day you can be a true advocate for christ by truly knowing his word.
Ashley Christie
As A Christian I Hope Your As A Christian I Hope Your Helping Your Brothers And Sisters In Christ For The Sin They Are WillingLy Know They Are commiting When They Eat Shrimp, Or When They Plant Two Seeds In Their Garden, When They Wear Two Fabrics, When They Trim Their Breads Or Get Body Piereings Because “As A Christian” That Should Be NO different Than Being A Homosexual…Correct? I Respect Anyones Beliefs Because I Would Want You To Respect Mine But Instead Of Staring Your Sentences “As A Christian” Try Using “As A Hypocrite…” Then Maybe We Can Understand Better.
Earle
Reads like a few of you have Reads like a few of you have cherry-picked your translations. Those Corinthians citations in your quotes read nothing like the KJV I was raised with. How do you know your choice of translation is more accurate? Are you all Greek scholars?
Here’s a demonstration of just how different a passage can be rendered based on the translators’ mindset and biases. You’re probably familiar with something that goes like this:
“The fool has said in his heart there is no god.”
It starts two different Psalms. In a Jewish bible I find:
“The benighted man thinks God does not care.”
What a difference! Which do you think is closer to Divine Inspiration?
Trisha Babcock
Hi Holli! I am a transsexual Hi Holli! I am a transsexual lesbian woman who was once part of the Assembly of God Church. They talked about loving your neighbor as you love yourself etc… They forgave and showed their love for those children that had children out of wedlock, they forgave and should their love those who committed crimes of lust against their spouses, they forgave and showed their love for those who committed crimes against others. They condemned the LGBT for loving each other and their love is not based on sex but the same feelings a heterosexual couple feels towards each other. They hate transgender people even more for not wanting to live as they were born. I was 5 years of age when I knew I was a girl and what was between my legs was not supposed to be there. Since in the 60’s sexual teachings was not taught or shown to children how could I know I was a girl? I made the mistake in telling our pastor in the baptist church who used to say if you have a problem come to him and he will help you. I did not know what was going to happen next I thought he would help me in becoming the girl I knew I was. His first words were I was going to hell and condemned for my evil thoughts! I was crushed deeply which drove me to hide who I was for 43 years. It took 35 years for God to get my attention and get me back in church. I have been married 2 times the first was a huge mistake because i thought with lust not love. My second God brought me to her and we had 12 wonderful years and adopted a little girl who I adore, because neither one of us could have children. After 43 years of torturing myself, battling who I was by always out performing the men next to me to prove to myself I was a man and to others, I nearly died from trying to castrate myself.
Now I have had 3 strikes of lighting hit me, 6 car accidents, a dozen motorcycle accidents, a couple of farming accidents, a virus that attacked my heart, severe pneumonia, a severe allergic reaction to the heart meds I was given, not to mention the incompetent doctors who missed the heart problem and the reaction to the drugs which put me on disability. This time I through my pastor out the door of my house for saying the same thing to me that the first pastor did!
My faith in God has not wavered once since coming out as transgender and living now 2 years as a woman on hormones. I have brought several people lost souls back to God by showing His love to them, helped many get over their fears of trans people, reinforced those who were faltering and ready to leave God behind. Who are the real sinners here those who keep bring God’s lost and rejected children back to Him?, or those who drive them from Him saying they know what God wants?
In the world straight or gay as a transgender women I am at the bottom of society. I gave up all my status as a man to find extreme peace and happiness as a woman crossing a line most fear to be evil.
I believe God loves all His children not just a few! Like any parent you love your children to the end and so does God!
Hugs
Trisha
I
Tonya Houston
Hi Trisha. You are courageous Hi Trisha. You are courageous to share such a personal life story. I hope your story helps others who are on the shoes you were in for so many years. I’m truly heartbroken and sorry for the way “the church” treated you. God commands us to love- Jesus showed us how- and yet we run around as stupid humans that learn nothing. You are loved, you are one of God’s children. Never forget that.
Cortney
Matt: Honestly if you think Matt: Honestly if you think it’s all about sex, you’re mistaken. My cousin was gay and was picked on, hazed, beat up, and laughed at all throughout high school because of it. He also commited suicide 2 years after high school because of what people told him. I don’t believe that he would have went through all that pain in misery just for sex. He was a homosexual, which by your deffinition means he had sexual feeling for someone. Sexual usually do arise in people either overtime or to people that seem really attracted to us. Don’t speak about the LBGT community if you’ve never been there. Because honestly you have no idea what they go through on a daily basis. You wouldn’t marry many woman, you probably wouldn’t stone your child to death just because he/she was disobedient, and you probably enjoy some kind seafood. So obviously those are sinful things as well.
Angie
my son attempted suicide my son attempted suicide three times, the first at 13 years old, because he wanted to be “normal” and have a family and children. He was beaten up at school- dragged behind a car, on and on. He never practiced homosexuality- but fought the urgings. He attempted suicide again at 21 – later stating how much he hated being gay and hating other gay people. As Christian parents we 100% accepted him and provided LGBT activities and mentors, the only person who couldn’t accept it was him. A year ago at age 30, he jumped in front of a tractor trailer doing 70 miles per hour. AND HE SURVIVED! yes he needed many surgeries and pain, but returned to work 6 months later. He isn’t in a wheelchair but does limp and is mistaken quite often as a war veteran. It took this wake up call for him to accept and love himself. GOD didn’t cause him to jump in front of a tractor-trailer, but God would not have allowed it if he didn’t have a purpose for his life. God showed out in his life. He has finally come to terms with the fact that he is a homosexual, and he does have a male companion. Fortunately, I have never condemned my son, but am a constant in his life. Has he come to terms with the sexual piece of homosexuality, absolutely not. So I do not care what anybody thinks about homosexuality being a choice, when it touches your life, and you see and experience the pain, hardship and suffering of your precious child struggling to accept who he is, you will understand that it is not a choice. GOD wouldn’t give up on Him, and it took something very drastic for my precious precious son to finally accept himself. So, to all of you misguided persons, trust in the Lord with all your heart, lean not on your own understanding, in all your ways acknowledge him, and he will keep your path straight. And as far as sex is concerned, whether homosexual or heterosexual ,the Bible states sex is for procreation – not enjoyment. So there are millions of heterosexuals committing sin every time they jump in bed and have sex with their partner for any other reason than procreation.
Ryan
Jesus would not persecute Jesus would not persecute homosexuals and neither would His disciples. But surely, surely practicing homosexuals will not enter the kingdom of heaven. This is black and white. 100% God stamped.
“Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God”
(I Corinthians 6:9)
You cannot pick and choose what you want to believe out of the Bible, for ALL scripture is profitable…. (2 Timothy 3:16). Since you profess Christianity with your mouth, then also you are aware that you will be judged. If you disagree in your actions with God’s Word, then you should be worried about the day that comes.
“No man can serve two master: for either he will hate the one, and love the other or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other.” (Matthew 6:24)
To be a Christian, you must fully submit yourself to the Christ for He said “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me” (Matthew 28:18). Not to the world. Who, or what, are you submitting yourself to, if not the Lord? This is one of the cornerstones of living a Christian life!
There were many things have I had to change about myself when I was baptized and gave my life to Christ; including indulging in pornography, fornicating, keeping my eyes “in-line” since now I am a married man, and also dealing with my money in a way which it isn’t covetous, as I used to be of most importance to me. To do all these things again I would not trade my soul. Not one, for my relationship with Christ!
Again, are you putting the desires of the LGBT community on a pedestal above the will of God? Tread cautiously, because God FORBIDS idolatry.
Living the Christian life means walking the road less traveled (Matthew 7:13-14). It is not an easy way of life, for we (all people) are attacked with temptations and desires. It’s this temptations that test our will, according to God’s Will, for the kingdom which is coming.
I hope something that has been written here can change your mind. God Bless America…
Jessica
OMG FOR THE LAST TIME! IT is OMG FOR THE LAST TIME! IT is not black and white. Because while it does straight out condemn homosexuality you are still ignoring the words historical context. It does not mean the same thing it does today and is being horribly mistranslated. I’ve taken tons of religious studies classes which all provide proof that the bible is refering to pedophilia and prostitution. Yes it condems homsexuality, but not the homosexuality we know today.
Ariel
This was a lovely read and is This was a lovely read and is exactly how I feel about Jesus and his message to Christians that are true followers of him. God is Love, Jesus tells us to love everyone and bring them in. To be examples of God’s love. And I for one am proud to say I am a Christian Ally. I have seen my fellow LGBT brothers and sisters, my friends feel like they don’t matter, like they aren’t welcome. Have to search for a church that wil include them and it physically and emotionally hurts me as much as them. We are supposed to be the Church, we are supposed to be the Body of Christ. Let’s act like it.
Teresa
There is not one verse in any There is not one verse in any part of the Scriptures (both Old and New Covenant) that support homosexual behavior. However, there are many that SPECIFICALLY state it is sinful and others that support this truth. Jesus stated a marriage is between one man and one woman. Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed specifically because of homosexuality. (Hence, the origin of the word “sodomy” that we use today). Claiming someone is “cherry picking” about this topic is a deceitful way to excuse things that are unacceptable to God, but that we as humans want to decide for ourselves. All of Scripture warns of sexual impurity and immorality. But what is specifically stated concerns homosexuality and beastiality. We are commanded to love God FIRST and FOREMOST, then others as we love ourselves. When a Christian will not accept what God has stated in the Bible because it doesn’t fit their idea of “fair” they have put themselves in the position of God. Never are we commanded to put a stamp of approval on something He has called sin. We are told to not judge those “of” the world. This does not mean judging actions, it is referring to judging a person’s righteousness, or lack thereof. No one can judge a person’s heart because only God knows it. We also know the heart is deceitfully wicked above all things and without cure. So, we must be very cautious and only use God’s Word in our lives. Remember, satan can and does use Scripture to deceive. (ex: in the garden of Eden). Therefore, we must be aware and wise of his schemes. When we turn away from what God has said is sin, we are turning away from Him. The one who loves Him is the one who obeys Him. In today’s culture it is very difficult for a Christian to stand firm in what the Bible teaches because the world is controlled by satan and he is our enemy. He will use whatever tactic he can to deceive and destroy Christians. Do not think that you are immune to his ways. The only way to overcome is to submit to God first. If we love someone we love them as a person, but that doesn’t mean we accept any sinful behavior. A homosexual most likely knows a Christian who lives by God’s Word is not accepting of their behavior. But, that doesn’t mean we treat the PERSON negatively. That is not how Jesus taught us to live. But beware that He did not teach to condone any sin, in anyone. That is why we are all “equal”, because we all sin. If we buy into apostasy and lies we are not His children, we are the devil’s children. So, I humbly plead for you to not take what I say as being truth, search the Scriptures daily and follow ONLY what they say. Not what you think, not what you feel, but what is written. May the Lord Jesus lead us into all truth and godliness. May He alone receive the glory when we obey His commands and love Him with all of our heart, soul, mind and strength.
Chuck Kreml
I find myself thinking about I find myself thinking about Christian to Christian. The harshest comments Jesus had was to the religious leaders who missed the point. Are you empowered to me or me to you? I think of Jesus not just calling out to stop the misrepresentation, but also to protect the abused by the “righteous.” He stood up to them who wanted to exercise the letter of the law in stoning a woman caught in adultery, (and at the same time trap Him). However, Jesus showed the balance by challenging the accusers to consider their own purity before throwing a stone but then also turning to the woman to “go and sin no more.” Apparently the “consenting adults” argument does not apply to adulterers. What sin(s) are we called out on to repent? If adulterers have a higher despair rate that causes them to leave responsibilities with their children or to consider suicide, should we as society just embrace them with “open arms,” or consider marching with them in future “Adulterer Pride” parades or events?
Rebekah Youngman
Consider reading this Consider reading this brilliantly written essay by Dr. Bill Buffie: ‘Marriage Equality, Religion, and Politics’. and add your signature to support equality for ALL Indiana citizens. Add your voice to “One Voice Indiana”. http://www.onevoiceindiana.org/religion-politics-2/religion-politics/
AngieNorris
So well-said! This is So well-said! This is exactly how I feel, I’m totally sharing this now and definitely showing this to my kiddos:) Thanks for a great article!
Melinda
Jesus came to Fulfill the law Jesus came to Fulfill the law. To make it complete. The law of Moses was INSPIRED by God. It came through a sinful man a Murderer, he took multiple wives, ordained genocides, but our God never turned his back on him. Our beloved brother Jesus/Yahshua made a very valid statement when his followers asked him why a man would not marry a woman. Matthew 19:12 NIV – For there are eunuchs who were BORN THAT WAY, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others–and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”
People will follow the Law of Man before they follow Jesus who was SIN FREE and a split image of GOD. In order to understand the Bible we must read it entirely no cherry picking. Read Mathew, Mark, Luke, John. Jesus gives us great teachings!! The law of man is incomplete, but Jesus words last from beginning to end. Praise God!
E J
If the message Jesus brought If the message Jesus brought was love, grace and compassion, any supposed ‘Christian’ stance that is not loving, graceful or compassionate is wrong. It’s very simple. I’m not saying it’s easy, but it’s very simple. I, for example, find it incredibly difficult to show love, grace and compassion towards people who use the Bible to justify homophobia.
And, incidentally, the Bible is NOT the word of God. It is a collection of accounts of the actions of people who encountered God. People who, like us, were prone to jealousy, fear, anger and poor communication skills.
Spen
Matt, Matt,
What you have done is so wrong! I feel sad for you as well as the people you have offended. I am heterosexual (and yes I love having sex with my wife as should any married person with their spouse Gay or straight) however I believe the same as the article above. My parents and pastor might I add do not. But the difference between them and you is simple: they do not try to attack anyone or demean them, or even more importantly try to tell them they don’t feel how they do. My point is no matter what you believe there is no call for how you approached it, and I hope someday you can realize that.
Dana Tomlin
Not all homosexuality couples Not all homosexuality couples are together for sex.
No one on Earth can determine what God sees as sin or not. The Bible can be interpereted in many different ways.
The Bible claims that God loves ALL of his children, but people always say that homosexuals are bad people and they’re all destined to go to hell. YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO DETERMINE OUR DESTINATION UNLESS YOU ARE GOD! Stop judging people.
Holli, first off, I would Holli, first off, I would like to say thank you from the bottom of my heart as well as my family for your support and your Christian views! My husband and I have been together for 25 years now and thru the years we have seen and been the brunt of a lot of prejudice over the years! You see Holi, I am terminally ill and we left our home in Houston, TX to move to the deep south bible belt in Mississippi about 13 years ago because my health was declining and we needed to slow down and enjoy life more. During these past 13 years we have experienced true hate and prejudice like the kind you only hear about or read about! Although the small town we lived in everyone knew we were gay but still had a lot of friends and supporters. It was not until we opened some DVD/Game rental and electronic stores that the “Christians” really took notice of us and could not allow us to prosper because we were an abomination (as they gracefully put it)! So what happened next was a horror story that I never wish on anyone. Because of our communities “Family Values” we our thriving and once prosperous business was basically destroyed overnight , we were faced with death threats, being burned out of our home, I was ran off the road several times and all of this was done under the guise of God and the Church! Because of God and the church we were forced to leave our home and loose our business for fear of our safety! The same church groups that we supported and donated to monthly from our stores were the same people that were basically running us out of town! We were forced to move to Fort Worth where now the only income we have is my Social Security Disability check and we are homeless! We went from being VERY productive members of society with a strong presence in our community to having to live with relatives while we try and figure out what to do! This has brought me to the brink of suicide as I sat back and watched everything that we worked our entire lives for vanish in front of my eyes! It’s people like your family that helps restore just a little bit of my faith in humanity!
Michael and Mark
You are brave to share your story. I’m so sorry for what you have been through. Prayers for peace and guidance as you discern what is next for you both. Perhaps this site will help lead you to a find an accepting and loving community near you. May you feel God’s love even when humanity gets in the way. Peace to you, friend.
lindamarie
I keep trying to find where I keep trying to find where in the Bible it says we become Christians by how we interpret the Bible. I also wonder where in the Bible that certain activities preclude one from being a Christian — and more especially certain ways of loving. My understanding keeps coming back to being kept as Christians by faith, not works, lest any person should boast. God is a God of justice and will put everything in it’s right order (which is the true meaning of justice.) Even the law is not static. How can grace be static? The alpha and omega of my life is Jesus. Never once did he condemn homosexuals. How does a follower of his presume to do more?
Ann
I believe that the I believe that the comandments are still relevant to Christianity to this day but!! It doesn’t mean we judge n point our fingures at people for their sin. The law should be followed be love n grace not by regulations n rules. I hate that people feel like that they can’t came to church and fill that they can not sit in cause of what they have done. It is not for us to judge but god alone. I go to a baptist church that was and is still slightly still is full of judgement pushing people away which is completely wrong. It’s between god n that person and their personal relationship with Jesus to change their sinful ways. Before coming back to god I use yo get drunk all the time but now I gave it to god n he closed that door begind. This is not to say that I don’t don’t sin n get it wrong but the fact I have a close personal relationship with Jesus I give it to him asking him for his forgiveness. I would love if for my church to be full of people from the commuinity learning about Jesus ande being a testomony and a witeness of Jesus.
Stop judging n start loving each other
God bless
Jeff
I consider myself a Christian I consider myself a Christian. Simply show me where JESUS says something about being gay. Jesus said a lot about feeding the poor, loving our neighbors, and visiting the sick or imprisoned. Above all these things he said love the Lord your God with all your heart soul and mind. If being gay were important Jesus would have mentioned it.
Ann
This is quiet interesting I This is quiet interesting I believe we should stay true to god’s word n follow the bible but love everyone n accept each other like Jesus did. The law is still part of today within the New Testament but through love n grace rather then rules n regulations. Praying and guiding someone is better then pointing n judging someone.
N we should never turn anyone away cause of their sins but bring them to god cause in the end we are all sinners. I believe giving it to god is the best way.
We should accept everyone into church no matter what. I pray for my church to be filled with people from the community sitting amongst Christians learning about Jesus n me being the witness n testimony to then in Jesus name. Before coming back to the Jesus I rebels against Jesus but now back it him he forgave all the sin I did such as getting completely drunk all the time. That doesn’t mean I don’t sin now cause it’s in our nature to sin but I give to god so let’s stop judging and love by gracing bringing people into our church n give it to god when we do wrong. His the only one to judge not us!!
God bless
David Quickel
The following is the The following is the definition of heterosexual. If you notice it is based on SEX. “Heterosexuality is romantic attraction, sexual attraction or sexual behavior between persons of opposite sex or gender in the gender binary. As a sexual orientation, heterosexuality refers to “an enduring pattern of or disposition to experience sexual, affectionate, physical or romantic attractions to persons of the opposite sex”
Some people just don’t get it.
Nlee
Unfortunately for you, none Unfortunately for you, none of what you wrote applies at all. Marriage was never about two heterosexuals marrying. It is about a man and a woman marrying (both could be homosexuals for all we know). Only in the western world do you place so much emphasis on romantic love and sexual attraction. In other parts of the world and in other cultures, attraction is the least reason to marry. Love and attraction are the unintended perks. Most people in my culture marry out of duty and to uphold the will of natural law as well as to continue family lineage. Guess what? We have very low divorce rates up until coming to America where too many drink the Kool-aid.
THANK YOU HOLLI For being a THANK YOU HOLLI For being a supporter. I get offended when anti- gay people say that homosexuality is about lustful sex. That my brothers and sisters Is TOTALLY WRONG. I have GAY CHRISTIANS friends that have been celibate. They know that being gay isn’t a sin and yes they had urges of wanting to have SEX with the same gender, just how Straight people have those urges too. But my friend CONTROL their urges just how a straight person would control his. WE LGBT are not that different from Straight people. I am Gay and Christian and I like Gay Christian friends and straight christian Friends is also celibate. Sex is not the main thing of being a HOMOSEXUAL. That is the least. I like my friends is waiting for marrIage (SAME-SEX-MARRIAGE) I don’t care if your against that type of marriage. But I will wait until the right person has come into my life. so in conclusion SEX is not the main thing in my mind when being gay. It’s mostly theatre since that is my passion in life. SO STOP PUTTING SEX AFTER GAY.
Beth
I think Jesus is saying that I think Jesus is saying that some are born gay in Matthew 19:11-12. Here’s a link to more discussion.
As the mother of a gay son, As the mother of a gay son, my husband and I knew he was gay when he was two years old…and we have two other straight sons. He was born the way God created him. When a heterosexual couple fall in love and want to spend the rest of their lives together and start a family, we say, “Oh, they love each other so much.” When a gay couple fall in love and want to spend the rest of their lives together and start a family, we say, “It’s all about sex.” I spent five years studying the Bible in the original Hebrew and Greek with professionals who know the language better than I. The word “homosexual” doesn’t appear in the Bible until 1946! Don’t tell me you take the Bible literally until the females in your family cover their heads in worship (as clearly commanded by Paul), until you are greeting fellow believers regularly with a holy kiss (as is commanded), and until you are washing believers’ feet (as Jesus commands).
Jacob
Homosexual as a word no it Homosexual as a word no it didn’t but the bible does say male and female and that men left there natural feelings toward woman and clinged to one another .. And that is new testiment
FIRST OF ALL I BELIEVE WE SHOULD LOVE AND UNDERSTANDING TO ALL PEOPLE HOMOSEXUAL OR NOT.. So take this as facts and love I just wanted it to be clear ..
Truth is the lady who wrote this article , is also missing a whole lot of scripture.
Jesus did say isn’t clear. Scripture that God created you male and female to be together..
, old testament law was broken when God brought down the blanket to Peter with the food on it.
Which breaks the article portion about shrimp ..plus even Jesus cooked fish.
but Christians shouldn’t be rude to homosexuals if they are it’s not biblical,
Thought according to the bible people who choose homosexuality are not equal, ( this is even new testament)
Now let me explain equal .. If you choose your choice of homosexuality or any other issue theft what ever it is , over God , you are not one with him, but if you are a Christian who chooses God over all you are one with him.
( THIS DOESN’T MEAN YOU WILL NOT STRUGGLE WITH ADDICTIONS OR TEMPTATION, you can struggle with homosexuality and be a Christians ( that is biblical ) but if you choose to be ok with your walk in that or any other sin) you have not had a heart change )
WE SHOULD LOVE ALL OF THE WORLD THE BIBLE SAYS TO. Homosexuals murders , thieves adulterers , drunkards , no matter we should love the world like Christ did..
But this does not give them salvation, salvation is a choice to have a relationship with Christ and to let other things go , but of course we have flesh and will Stumble and struggle
Biggest misconception is that people assume homosexuality was in the old testament only
Zack
No one is born gay. It is a No one is born gay. It is a choice. Your son chose to be gay.
soubiyuki
Ezekiel 16:49 Ezekiel 16:49
New International Version (NIV)
49 “‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
FYI.
I knew that I was bisexual before I was ten years old. It had nothing to do with sex. I did not CHOOSE to go through twenty years of emotional and spiritual turmoil, spending every day of my life thinking that God hated me and that I was going to hell. No child or teenager should ever have to experience that. No one should ever feel that suicide is the better option because of those of you who persist in calling us sinners. (Which, yes, we are by nature of our overall humanity. As are you.)
If those of you who are so convinced that being gay is sinful persist in cherry-picking passages, why must it be the negative ones? Though I can’t help but notice that you’re not advocating slavery or stoning or putting women “in their place” or any of the other outdated things that are explicitly mentioned in the Bible. I am black and my husband is white. Back in the day, those against interracial marriage also thought it went against God and were quoting scripture, the same as you lot are now. I would love to hear your explanation of why you’re perfectly okay with that but not gay marriage.
Some of the comments I’m reading here break my heart. It also reminds me of why I abandoned church long ago. I love God, with all of my heart and soul and being. But some of God’s children make it very hard for me to share and enjoy my utter joy of being a Christian with other Christians.
J.
A question for the A question for the heterosexuals above: When did you decide to be straight? You didn’t? Ah, shocking. Pretend you, the heterosexual, are the minority and that you are being asked by the church to repent and to change who you love. How does that make you feel? Probably a bit frustrated and confused to say the least because that is truly an impossible thing to do, granted you were born loving someone of the opposite sex. (And God created you too, didn’t he?) Love your neighbors people. Period. If anyone would like me to explain the actual biological, neurological, and psychological science of a lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender (I can do heterosexual too) person- don’t worry I’m getting my degree in neuroscience so I actually know this stuff- I would be happy to. Why are we condemning our brothers and sisters for things they have no control over? Also, would we even be having arguments like this if every single person truly understood the dept of the science behind homosexuality? Do not make an argument if you are not fully studied on the topic you are arguing against. (Yes I have read the bible and I too have my own opinion on its teachings- thankfully scientific facts cannot be interpreted countless ways.) Love God, love others. That is all.
Zack
Dear J. there is no Dear J. there is no scientific evidence for a gay gene. You can choose who you love. It is a choice.
Brandon Captain
Trying to reconcile Trying to reconcile Christianity into modern times just shows that it was fundamentally flawed to begin with.
soubiyuki
Ezekiel 16:49 Ezekiel 16:49
New International Version (NIV)
49 “‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
FYI.
I knew that I was bisexual before I was ten years old. It had nothing to do with sex. I did not CHOOSE to go through twenty years of emotional and spiritual turmoil, spending every day of my life thinking that God hated me and that I was going to hell. No child or teenager should ever have to experience that. No one should ever feel that suicide is the better option because of those of you who persist in calling us sinners. (Which, yes, we are by nature of our overall humanity. As are you.)
If those of you who are so convinced that being gay is sinful persist in cherry-picking passages, why must it be the negative ones? Though I can’t help but notice that you’re not advocating slavery or stoning or putting women “in their place” or any of the other outdated things that are explicitly mentioned in the Bible. I am black and my husband is white. Back in the day, those against interracial marriage also thought it went against God and were quoting scripture, the same as you lot are now. I would love to hear your explanation of why you’re perfectly okay with that but not gay marriage.
Some of the comments I’m reading here break my heart. It also reminds me of why I abandoned church long ago. I love God, with all of my heart and soul and being. But some of God’s children make it very hard for me to share and enjoy my utter joy of being a Christian with other Christians.
Rev Clyde Baker
Christianity, like most Christianity, like most religions, tends to be the anchor for the culture it resides in. Despite the constant references to ‘the Bible says’, the primary reason for the reluctance to welcome LGBT Christians is this tendency to lag cultural change. In some areas that can be helpful–keeps us from diving into shark infested waters. But the push back against bringing LGBT Christians into full fellowship with straight Christians in baptism, marriage, and ordination is a horrible failure of our faith. When you can’t figure out why God said something in the Bible you have a duty to realize the Bible is no longer talking about morality. So when it prohibits murder it doesn’t take a genius to figure out the harm that is being proscribed. Clearly a moral principle there. When it prohibits shellfish it doesn’t take a genius to figure out there is no present harm being proscribed. You can cheat and say, ‘Well that was just for the nation of Israel.’ And then you can pick and choose the things you want to stick in that bucket. But that is a patently ridiculous way to gather inspiration from the Scriptures. If, instead, you let the Scriptural admonitions push you to think deeply about the harm we do each other, then the Sprit can actually teach us something. Is anyone harmed when two LGBT Christian couples make a lifetime commitment to fidelity and support in a Christian marriage? Of course not. Is anyone harmed when a Christian community excludes that couple? Of course they are.
LE
You all seem to care so much You all seem to care so much about what God thinks of others that you forget to recognize the basic teachings of Jesus and Christianity. Love one another. If you cannot love someone who is different from you, then how can you expect God to present you with that same love.
John
Homonsexuality is wrong. It Homonsexuality is wrong. It doesn’t mean you’re worse than anyone else. But it is a sin. The bible is clear. Paul is clear. Jesus is clear. GOD IS CLEAR. We should love homosexuals as we would love anyone else. Do not, however, say what their doing is right just so you can have the approval of the world. Pray for these people.
Thank you for this piece. Thank you for this piece. More and more Christians are becoming enlightened about what scripture does and does not say about same sex relationships and how a follower of Jesus should think and act about lgbtq people and those who love and support them>
As the mom of a son who is gay I know how hurtful it can be when Christians talk about your child as if they are less than and that is why I have started a private online Facebook group for open minded Christian moms who have LGBTQ kids and want to develop and maintain healthy, loving, authentic relationships with their LGBTQ kids. It’s called “Serendipitydodah for Moms” and it’s an extension of my blog Serendipitydodah (a blog dedicated to LGBTQ people and friends and family members of the LGBTQ community attempting to develop and maintain healthy, loving, authentic relationships.)
Any moms of LGBTQ kids who would like to join the Facebook group can contact me by email at lizdyer55@gmail.com and put “Mom’s Facebook Group” in the subject line. The group is private so only those in the group can find it or read what is posted there. Thanks again for all you do!!
The Truth--born this way
I have a heart which wants to I have a heart which wants to have sex with women who are not my wife. I cannot help it. I was “born this way”. The Bible says it is wrong and I know it is wrong because God’s Holy Spirit convicts me and gives me shame when I have these feelings. But, I DO NOT “claim it” as my “identity”. It is just a sexual temptation to commit a wrong behavior. The same as homosexuality. Romans 1 says we are “guilty if we support [these] things” This is a shallow, humanistic reading of the Bible.
I don’t know if it’s just me I don’t know if it’s just me or if perhaps everyone else encountering issues with your site.
It appears as though some of the written text on your posts are running off the
screen. Can somebody else please comment and let
me know if this is happening to them too? This may be a issue with
my internet browser because I’ve had this happen previously.
Cheers
CJ
Here’s how I would respond to Here’s how I would respond to your reasons:
1. “What did Jesus say?” Matthew 19:5, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? – Giving and OT examples about child-rearing and calling that “well-researched and faithful readings of the Bible that support full inclusion and equal rights for the LGBT community” is a bit dishonest.
2. God didn’t say “Go forth and multiply” solely for the purpose of filling the earth with people. He wanted His purpose and Kingdom advanced throughout the earth. Still does today.
3. Whose not treating them as equals? We are all equal sinners. Only saved by grace. When grace comes it transforms you into the image of God. It doesn’t keep you blindly bound in your sinfulness.
4. Anytime you choose to disregard sound doctrine to observe what’s trending in society is a mistake. Satan is the father of lies and the author of confusion in those teenagers that attempt suicide, not Christians.
Zack
Homosexuality is a sin. It Homosexuality is a sin. It is clearly stated in 1 Corinthian 6:9-10. It is not just acts. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10-Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral nor the idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor HOMOSEXUAL OFFENDERS nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Joy
Did God not also say judge Did God not also say judge and be judged condemn and be condemned forgive and be forgiven? So other than God whose place is it to judge? In all my life I thought God was the one who handed out judgement. That when you die its Him you face on judgement day! I feel like the ones against marriage equality are the ones who need to face judgement. Those who sin, which is all of us, will face that day so why pretend to be God and judge other sinners? Why pick and choose which sins to judge? Why present yourself in this manner when one persons choice has no effect on your life? I believe that God wanted “mankind” to love each other and let Him judge the sins and condemn those of His choosing. I am not concerned with the way other people choose to live and who they love. I am concerned with myself, my life, and my judgement day. At least I can stand proud and say no God, I did not judge them, that is your job not mine!
Alyssa
I am a christian and believe I am a christian and believe in same sex marriage. I didn’t believe in it until I met a friend who was a lesbian. She loved and trusted God, and constantly reminded me to put him first. I wanted my friend to be happy, just like all others should feel this way for their friends to . Girls are what made her happy. I don’t understand that if God truly loves EVERYONE, then why wouldn’t he love her just because she’s lesbian? God forgives those who murder, who rape young, who sin, why can’t he forgive her for loving who she wants to love? That is what I don’t understand. I’ve read that some churches and even the Pope have I don’t know how to say this but almost redesigned their thinking about things, such as their thinking about women. Doesn’t God change his mind? How are we to know he doesn’t support it? Just because something was written down many many years ago doesn’t mean he hasn’t changed his thinking. The churches changed their minds, we change our minds. I just don’t understand why some Christians are against it. Someone please help me understand this!(:
Jan
I am a follower of Christ, I am a follower of Christ, and yes Jesus personally never condemns homosexuality, yet when he talks about marriage, he only defines it as between a man and a woman. I am wondering for those who now celebrate the recent Supreme Court ruling, is there ever going to be a line that should not be crossed and who gets to decide that? How bout two men and three women getting married? Who gets to decide what the rules are? For me, the answer is simple. God set the standards for all areas of our lives, marriage being just one, and clearly the one most people are consumed with. Perhaps if we spent more time trying to build the fruit of the spirit into each of our lives, we would have less time to argue about this one topic with anger and arrogance (on both sides). People on both sides of the issue are picking and choosing verses out of context to defend their position. THAT is the most dangerous thing and all of this breaks the heart of God. God loves all his children and we are to love each other. I love my children, but I also taught them right from wrong for their own protection. For some reason now, those of us who believe that God designed marriage to between a man and a woman, clearly are not allowed to express our beliefs without being bullied and put down and made to feel that we are ignorant and intolerant.
Joanne
When it comes to When it comes to homosexuality, the concept and word did not exist in the eras that any of the Bible was penned in. We also do not speak wither Aramaic, Ancient Hebrew, the dirty Greek vernacular of the time of Christ and the Apostles, nor the contemporary Latin of the same era as Christ and the Apostles. Look at any version of the Bible, printed prior to 1947 and you will not find the word in there at all – only the word Sodomite.
It is possible to say things in any of the languages mentioned above that can not be stated in contemporary English of any dialect in common usage in this day and age so every translation also has to be done with “value judgements” on the part of the translator as to exactly what a certain phrase or word actually meant to the people for whom it was originally penned.
I have heard many sermons on the subject of Lot and the Men of Sodom being homosexuality gone to extreme, but since when is putative rape equivalent to consensual sex? To me, this sounds like comparing a firing squad to a 21-gun salute. In the culture that Lot lived in, there were not fly, rental car and hotel packages and most travellers would go to the gates of a city, seek permission to enter the city, go to the public square and wait for someone to come and offer them the hospitality of food, a roof overhead for the night and safety while they were under the roof of their benefactor. Their host was responsible for their safety while they were guests in their house – a duty Lot took seriously.
Understand that Lot was not a native to Sodom. He married a woman of Sodom and was an immigrant to the city who bought his position as a gate keeper from a city official.
At that time, there were people who spent the day noting the arrivals of caravans and individuals coming into or going out of the city, many the slave of the wealthy who wanted this information for their business dealings. According to scripture, about the end of the day, two strangers approached the gate where Lot worked and he went out and bowed to them and invited them to his house for the night, promising them a feast and a place to sleep. This was not lost on the gate watchers who reported back to their masters and friends. Essentially, this was an alien inviting two important aliens into their city, bypassing the visit to the town square where the citizens of Sodom could talk to them and discern their business – which, Sodom being a city of great wealth and opulence caused the people to become wary of these strangers. When the men of Sodom, young and old, surrounded Lot’s house, it was essentially a lynch mob, Sodom style. In short a gross violation of hospitality on the part of the people of Sodom.
There is a very similar occurrence in Judges 19, involving a Levite and his concubine in the City of Gibea, where Lot and his concubine met an old man coming in from his fields and invited the Levite and his concubine directly into his home and again bypassing the town square, even though the guest was a fellow Israelite. While the crowd did not get the Levite, they did get his concubine and raped and abused her to death, which would have been the case if the crowd had gotten their hands on the Levite.
There is only one place in the Bible where the Sin of Sodom was discussed and defined in detail, and that would be in the 16th Chapter of Ezekiel. Sexual misconduct is not mentioned, but having an excess of wealth, comfort and no care to lift a finger to help the poor and needy were – and they did things, along these lines that were despicable to God and Jerusalem was told that thy made their sister Sodom seem righteous by comparison.
I have never seen anyone in the Bible being condemned by God for loving and seeing to the needs of a sinner.
Even Jesus, when asked by the Pharisees; “Teacher, what is the most important commandment?”
Jesus replied to them; “There are two. The first is to love your God with all your heart, soul and strength. The second is lie unto the first. To love your neighbor as yourself. Upon these two commandments rests the Law and the Prophets.”
In my walk with God, I have always striven to keep the primary basis of faith at the core of my relationship with God. This can be simply stated as: It is God’s to judge, the Spirit’s to convict and my job is to love others as Christ loved.
I always remember that Christ died for each and every one of us while we were still living in sin. We are also commanded to mete out grace, mercy and forgiveness as it was given to us – unconditionally and without limit. If I am to err, I would hope to err on the side of grace, mercy and forgiveness.
It is not my part to judge others nor their sins. All sin is equal in the eyes of God and the only irredeemable sin is unbelief. Judgement is God’s sole prerogative. If I judge others by the law, then I will be judged under the same law, in which lies a curse. For under the law to fail at one is to fail at all.
Peace be with you all
sheila
It is sad when everyone can It is sad when everyone can be so concerned about other peoples sexuality and whether or not they should marry and be happy. Don’t you think we should be more concerned about murderers, child molesters and the such.
The other thing I find amusing is this statement: Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. Please let us be honest. There is not one soul in this world who will inherit the kingdom of god. Because no one truly lives by the bible.
Jethro
There are a lot of lost There are a lot of lost people in this world. You can twist and turn and dig as you will, but at the end, GOD singled out homosexuality as an ABOMINATION and Jesus confirms this. Twist however you need to, but ask yourself this: Are you accepting this because its what God wants, or because it’s what the normal of society tells you to do? I’m with Jesus… if I’m hated because of it, so be it. To all the LGBT ‘Christians” the point is you are supposed to struggle with the weakness and overcome it. See God and he will help you. Satan has you convinced you were born that way… born with the weakness, sure we all have one or two, but not born into an un-natural, un-Godly lifestyle. That very argument is contradictive to the Bible and God’s word. When in doubt remember Jesus taught us to view religion as through the eyes of a child… take the face value and run with it. In addition King Solomon taught us not to dig until we find the answer… Digging for the answer is exactly what this is. You are trying to justify your worldly view and in turn are missing the point.
Terra
This article is perfect and This article is perfect and so gracefully hits ever point I’ve ever tried to make. Thank you for taking the time to put this together! <3
Josiah
You support what? You support You support what? You support sin. I hope you don’t approve of sin.
Romans 1:26-27 & 32 – For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. 32 Though they know God’s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.
Comments (107)
Sheena Haqrtgill
I’m a lesbian in a loving
I’m a lesbian in a loving comited civil union. Iam also a Christ follower. I feel so blessed when my hetrosexual brothers and sisters seek to know the truth of God’s love and when in so doing they come to see that my choice of life partenar is no threat to them that in thruth we want the same thing that all will come to know the Lord Jesus as their personal saviour. Thank you,for it is true Christians like yourselves that make it possible for me to go on telling my gay brothers and sisters that Christ really does love them.
Andy
Sheena, didn’t Jesus call us
Sheena, didn’t Jesus call us to both love and obedience (“If you love me, you will obey what I command” Jn 14:15)? Sexual purity (including a clear repudiation of homosexuality) was clearly one of those commands!
Nick Sikeuz
Ok; you claim to follow
Ok; you claim to follow Christ. But do you believe that God wants you to turn away from your sins? In that case, you should try to rid yourself of sin, and hate your sin. Just because we are saved by grace people think that they can continue in their sin. (Romans 6) Again in Romans, Paul tells us that the world has been given over to sin. One of these sins is homosexuality (Roman 1). The gospel is important, but so are the marks of the true christian. (Romans 12) The fact that you persist in sin even though you know it to be very well to be sin shows that you have no faith. It is one thing to have desires for someone of the same sex, and it is quite another thing to have desires for someone of the same sex and shamelessly act out on them. As christians I am called to love you, but that means telling you that the route you are persisting down leads to condemnation in front of the Kings of Kings.
Matt
As Christians it’s best not
As Christians it’s best not to decide what is a sin and what isn’t based on your personal feelings but rather look to the Bible for instructions. The Bible is very clear on homosexuality. (As far as your straw-man argument on what you feel is not so clear I reference you to Galatians 3: 23-25)
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NKJV)
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
That is as clear as it gets. There is noting gray about that. If you are saying homosexuality is acceptable in God’s eyes after reading that then you are either deceived or unwilling to accept God’s word.
What does the Bible say about supporting homosexuality?
Isaiah 5:20- Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
I agree we should treat homosexuals with love just as we should treat lustful heterosexuals with love, but don’t confuse that with encouraging sin.
Joy
Do you read Biblical Hebrew
Do you read Biblical Hebrew or Greek? This is a translation, and a very poor one at that!
Emmily
Thank you, Matt, for having
Thank you, Matt, for having the courage to speak the truth and not cave to popular opinion. The bible is so clear on homosexuality, but when people don’t want to believe it, they scramble for every illogical excuse and fabricated doctrine to continue in their sin. They are only hurting themselves. This life is very short compared to eternity.
Drew Hellams
Matt, I’m sorry to hear about
Matt, I’m sorry to hear about your proof-texting the Bible. This is precisely why Jesus was reprimanding the Saduccees. Your ‘clarity’ and certainty are based on something so fragile: translation. Culturally, homosexual acts were significantly different from now. Perhaps that is not a good enough argument for you. Then let us explore the word here: malakois. This idea can mean effeminate or a catamite, a boy kept for homosexual practices by an adult (a concept we can all agree is wrong). If you pull one word out of Paul’s list you must read them all equally. Take porneia (pornoi), for example, a male prostitute or fornicator (two entirely different ideas). Jesus is clear that if you have lusted in your heart then you are guilty. This means any man who watches TV, browses the internet or sees any advertisement while ambulating is equally guilty of not inheriting the kingdom. Sexual immorality is ubiquitous and unavoidable as sex is the foundation of American capitalism. By buying goods that use sex in their advertising you are supporting sexual immorality. What about thieves and robbers? Have you drank a cup of coffee lately or eaten a piece of chocolate? Do you shop at Wal-mart and other discount stores? If (inevitably) so, you have stolen from the hard work of underpaid farmers/employees and more importantly participated in the largest institution of slavery that has ever existed in human history. We support child slavery in much that we do. By being a westerner, you necessarily fit into this list–unless of course, you are Amish, et al. The point is that none of us deserve a thing from God. In the midst of our seeming ‘total depravity’, God provides [prevenient] grace through the witness of Jesus and the beckoning of the Holy Spirit. Even the pope understands Matt 7.1: “Judge not, lest you be judged.” Live by the law–>die by the law. Is that your strategy? The grace that Christ attested to is that the law is not a good indicator of one’s nearness to God. I pray that you will leave legalism behind and embrace the grace that Christ extends to ALL persons.
daril
again, you should look
again, you should look towards historical context. i believe that the chorinthians verse you are re-ferring to is a special hebrew term that means a very unique relationship that and old man would have with a teenage boy. the translation isnt flawless because we dont have the same relationship as that anymore.
Alyssa
Keep in mind that with 1
Keep in mind that with 1 Corinthians 6:9, the word for “homosexuals” there was translated two different ways in the New International Version of the Bible (one was “homosexual offenders”, the other “perverts”). The original ancient Greek word is arsenokoitai, a compound word for “male” and “bed”. In the passage you quoted, St. Paul was listing many common sins among the Greeks, such as idolatry and theft (both of which are mentioned in the passage). Also consider that in ancient Greece, it was not uncommon for married men to have sex with male youths. Side note: this laundry list of vices is also used in 1 Timothy 1:10, and arsenokoitai was used there as well.
It is important for all people to consider the context and culture in which the Bible was written. It is not only a spiritual text, but a historical one. Delve deeper than the words, and you will certainly find a deeper faith. I did. Pray on it.
Martha
Wow Matt! I would love to
Wow Matt! I would love to meet you personally. I’ve never met anyone in my life who was not guilty of ONE of those things you mention…fornicator, idolater, adulterer, homosexual, sodomite, thieve, coveter, drunkard, reviler, or extortioner. You must truly be a saint if you’ve never “coveted” something, or stolen something. And yes, by thievery, if you take it for its true meaning, that includes a postage stamp from work.
Victor
I appreciate your passion to
I appreciate your passion to understand the Bible, Matt! That passion seems to be in short supply these days. Especially among those who claim to know God.
I’ve done a lot of diligent studying myself, and over the course of nearly half a year, God has exposed to me several things in the Bible that are often misinterpreted. The words Paul uses in his letter to the Corinthians that have been translated as ‘homosexuals’ and ‘sodomites’ were words that were not established Greek words at that time. In fact, educated scholars have discovered that the word translated as ‘homosexual’ was a word that Paul seemed to have made up. According to modern scholarship, more accurate translations of those two words would be ‘man who owns boy sex slaves’ and ‘male prostitute’.
As a young gay Christian myself, I feel I do not fit the description of a sex slave owner or a prostitute. I’ve never had sex and I strongly oppose the usage of sex slaves. The love of my life agrees.
When studying the Bible, I believe it is vital to study the culture and context in which the verses were written. Paul says many things that seem to contradict when you isolate the verses. But when reading in context, these things flow nicely together. Jesus himself asked people why they didn’t chose for themselves what was right. And Paul once said that something that seems right for one person may seem wrong for another. Paul says that if you don’t follow your conscience, you are making a mistake.
As a young gay man, I have a relationship with Jesus. My conscience tells me that what Jesus said about treating others the way you want to be treated, and basically how Jesus acted toward the minority, should be applied to all of our lives. My conscience tells me that my love for my other half is righteous and natural. In the words of Paul, what may seem natural to you might not seem natural to others.
As I said before, your passion for the Bible is commendable. If you wish to dig further into the texts, I highly suggest studying the culture of those times. I began studying that way five months ago and my relationship with Jesus has grown stronger because of it.
God bless! Hope you have an awesome day. (:
L
READ INMPORTANT
This was beautiful to read jesus came to our earth to save us from sin no matter who you are and what your personality is all that matters to mee is
– do you know who jesus is
– do you know what was done to save us from sin
– are you ready to surrender your heart to our lord to live a beautiful peacefull everlasting life
– do you live for the world or for jesus
theres many more but no christian on earth can ever scold a gay christian for i have found out who my lord jesus christ is i am absolutely ready to surrender my heart to him to be able to walk in the promise that was promised to me by my lord so the gays who probally will go to hell is the ones who rejected our christ chose to live in sin and who chose the materialistic sick pleasures that played in the world so you can be any race any color but deep down in us sinners is a true beliver my lord will accept me in the heavens even if i have to give up my sexuality the world is temporary but our god is everlasting if you are a true beliver you know in your heart if your going to be saved or not have faith jesus and god and the holy spirit is doing everything they can to gather the church god bless to all but the devil wont be having me in his burn party – L from florida
ps. keep praying , keep speaking the word of the lord and never lose faith god loves everyone !!!!!!1
Casey
It’s interesting that you
It’s interesting that you quote a version of the Bible that flat out says homosexuality since that word didn’t exist until the 1900’s. I somehow doubt it was actually in the Bible.
Yes the Bibile does talk about same sex relationships, but you have to look at them in context of the time. Galileo was put under house arrest for going against biblical teachings and saying the earth rotates around the sun because this went against what the Bible clearly states, we now now the earth very much goes around the sun so we have to reconsider what scripture means.
Interracial marriage was illegal in nearly every state because it went against the bible, but as we have accepted it is cruel to tell interracial couples their love is inferior we reintrupet the scripture.
So, we need to understand that in the time the Bible was first writen it was not believed that two people of the same sex could participate in a monogamous relationship. It was believed that same sex relationships were caused by an overflowing of lust. It was believed all people could engage in sexual encounters with either sex but would only do so if they had an excess of kits and therefore were not satisfied with the opposite only.
We now know this is not the case and there are people who are committed and monogamous in same sex relationships and not attracted to the opposite sex and just too full of lust. Given that know leg it is irresponsible to not look at the scripture with a new heart.
Pastor, Casey
Blake
For those who are arguing the
For those who are arguing the scriptural basis for same-sex marriage relationships being sinful, perhaps this link would be helpful.
It really breaks down the 6 individual passages that are used to discuss this topic in the world today and shows how things might not be as we think (including the use of the translated word ‘homosexuals’ in this list, which did not exist in any translation before 1946).
No one is saying you should read it and change your mind. Just read it to know the other side before putting someone else down and being quick to say they’re wrong because they differ in theology from you. A good discussion is always better when one knows both sides.
http://www.matthewvines.com/transcript/
Michele
Matt, your interpretation of
Matt, your interpretation of Paul’s words is offensive. My son, who is a homosexual, and who loves Jesus, and who is blessed by God (in the way of answered prayers and having God’s favor in many ways), is not an adulteror, drunkard, extortionist, etc. He is full of love and grace and kindness. You sir, are misguided and flat out wrong. The bible (new testament) also says women shouldn’t preach over men. Just think of Joyce Meyer….her ministry is blessed blessed blessed. Wow…what if we really took it at face value, instead of what Paul is talking about….all lust, greed, and selfishness…no LOVE.
Michael White
Well Said!!
Well Said!!
Emmily
Michelle…You are only
Michelle…You are only offended because you cannot see the topic from an unbiased viewpoint. I get that this is emotional for you because you have a family member who is homosexual. However, there is no love in allowing people to continue down the path to destruction. Being comfortable in this life at the expense of eternity is not wise. The verse quoted in Corinthians isn’t saying that a homosexual necessarily has all those other sins as well. It is merely a list of the sins that are offensive to God and which will cost us eternal life if we continue in ANY of them. Homosexuality is just one of those sins. The most loving thing you can do for someone who has those feelings is to show them why they mustn’t act on them. There are a lot of people apart from homosexuals who have to develop some self-control over their emotions, so as live in a way that is pleasing to God. These days everyone thinks it is OK to have sex with anyone anywhere. But God doesn’t condone that, as we can see from that verse. He doesn’t approve of sexual immorality or adultery. This is a call to all of us to clean up our act. And, if we are not married, then we are not supposed to be having sex at all.
Darriell
Michele, what Mike is saying
Michele, what Mike is saying is truth and scriptural. If we rely on our biases to conclude truth, then truth becomes relative and not absolute. Jesus said, I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man comes to the Father but by Me. (John 14:6) His words tell us of God’s love for us individually as well as collectively. However, Jesus said we must deny ourselves and take up our cross and follow Him. I appreciate Mrs. Long’s effects to affirm homosexuality, but her view as a Christian isn’t biblical. I love people in general, but saying someone is a gay is like saying someone likes toast. Being gay shouldn’t define who you are, the Bible says born again believers are a new creation, one which does not live according to the formal lust (I Peter 1:14) I feeling sympathy for believers who wrestle with sexual orientation. However, the church should not affirm gay marriage in the church, because legislators have pushed the agenda. It is our firm conviction the Bible is truth and if we are Christian’s, then our willingness to avoid sin at all cost should be our primary focus. Matthew isn’t being offensive, he’s speaking the truth.
Matt
Michele, I’m sorry you find
Michele, I’m sorry you find God’s Word offensive. The heart of the problem is you do not find God’s Word to be the absolute truth. You have allowed your love for your son to blind you from what the Word says. You say your son is “is full of love and grace and kindness” and “not an adulterer, drunkard, extortionist, etc.” but what you are looking past is homosexuality is just another sin lumped into the group of sins mentioned in 1 Cor 6:9 that will keep you from heaven.
You mention love several times in your reply, and this may come off brash but its the truth, and this is what makes ALL the difference.
Homosexuality is not about love, its about sex.
Homosexuality is not about love, its about sex
(yes I put it twice to emphasis that important truth)
Homosexuality is never mentioned in the Bible in the context of love, it is always mentioned in the context of sin, specifically sexual sin.
Leviticus 18:22
22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
Leviticus 20:13
13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.
Romans 1:26-28
26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. 28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.
1 Corinthians 6:9
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality
1Tim 1:10
8 Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, 9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers,liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.
Homosexuality is a sex act.
Definition of HOMOSEXUALITY
1: the quality or state of being homosexual
2: erotic activity with another of the same sex
There is nothing wrong with a man loving a man, I have many men in my life that I love and there is no problem with that in God’s eyes. Why is that? ‘Cause there is no sex involved. Its the sex that makes the difference and that is what makes it sin.
Brie
Oh Matt, my heart breaks
Oh Matt, my heart breaks reading your post. Your last paragraph is completely irrelevant. You love your male friends; as a friend. Obviously you are straight…my assumption is that you would never dream of, or have a desire to have sex with your male friends, even though you love them, because you are straight. You don’t know what it “feels” like, so you cannot, in ANY way, make that statement. Also, if there is any hope for the Christian church to do things right, your entire comment would turn away any LGBT person. “Christians” have messed up Christianity so incredibly much from what Jesus ever intended Christianity to be. Just like I do, you are picking and choosing in your life what to take literally and what not (Read; The Blue Parakeet). I know there is nothing I could say, or anyone could say to you to change your heart, only God can do that. But in even writing that last comment, you are turning away LGBT and their family from Jesus. And that is NOT what Jesus calls us to do. I am a worship leader, a Jesus-lover, and a girl who cannot stand the way the church has become. It is people like you that don’t remember that their is a living, breathing and active God behind and in front of the scripture. It’s a scary thing for people to encounter, because it is a scary feeling to even QUESTION that what you may have been taught, or believe your entire life could potentially not be accurate. So, instead…Christians pick and choose what is comfortable for them, instead of stepping into the deep waters, into the complexity of Christ, but also the simplicity that He came back to whip us in shape and LOVE everyone. And no – “hating the sin, loving the sinner” does not work. It only pushes people away. I really wonder what our world would be like if we actually followed the “red letters” of the Bible [Jesus’ words], love people, accept that we don’t know everything and never will until after our life here, and LET God take care of everything else including the heart and soul of everyone He created, like He should…what a different place this would be.
Andy
Brie, didn’t Jesus call us to
Brie, didn’t Jesus call us to both love and obedience (“If you love me, you will obey what I command” Jn 14:15)? Sexual purity (including a clear repudiation of homosexuality) was clearly one of those commands!
Beth
Brie,
Brie,
Your last paragraph has really hit home with me. I am struggling right now to find a church home for my family and for me that isn’t preaching what Matt has written. My children go to a very conservative Christian school and while they are learning to love the Lord and are saved…they are also are struggling (as am I) to find a place of worship that is open and accepting of the gay community. It is important to us since my sister is gay and we feel like hypocrites if we are sitting in a place of worship that thinks that she is full of sin and would not welcome her into their home.
Here is my question… The Lutheran church is open and accepting but the liturgical structure is so different and not as full of praise as we have known. Do we go to the Baptist church and PRAISE our LORD but also know their philosophy does not match with ours or head back to the Lutheran church? Have you found a church family that supports your Christian views? Thanks!
Pam
Check out the United Church
Check out the United Church of Christ, Beth. I think you will find what you ate looking for there. I love my UCC family.
Bryce
Mat never said he hated
Mat never said he hated anyone… He has many valid points! We only hate the sin, not the sinner… Homosexuality is a sin whether or whether not you agree. The bible has never been proven wrong.. so obviously it’s better to follow the bible, follow christ than it is to follow words of some person on the internet speaking false scripture on the bible.
Matt
Matt, you are so right on. I
Matt, you are so right on. I’m not sure when people starting thinking that the Bible teaches things like “openness”, “equality” and “acceptance”. The God I know care’s more about rescuing us from sin than making us feel warm and cozy while we slowly die in it. Last I heard, Jesus came to save us from our sins… not to ensure we all had equality.
Keep up the good fight.
Ben Gay
Matt,
Matt,
I am a gay Christian who tried much of my life to think as you preach, only to fall into depression and spite for God. Eventually I had to decide that accepting myself, with the freedom to have a relationship, was the only way to find peace with Christ, which is ultimately the only way to Heaven. Set many of your modern versions of the Bible aside and read the more ancient interpretations. Homosexuality, as we know it today, is never even used. It was the biased, modern translators who inserted it as a substitute for unclear words or phrases–don’t forget that that the Bible was written in Hebrew, not modern English.
I will pray for you Matt. That is the best advice I can give.
Kathy Raudabaugh
Homosexuality is not about
Homosexuality is not about sex. When my son was 5, he was clearly homosexual and he didn’t know what sex was. Where the bible addresses homosexuality it is in the context of gang rape and idol worship. When two men are in love with each other rape and idolatry do not even enter into the picture. The verses you quote in Leviticus prohibit many more things such as wearing 2 different types of fabric together, which I’m certain you are guilty of yourself. When you quote Romans, you start at “for this reason…” This has always troubled me as a mother of a gay child. For what reason? My son never made birds or animals and worshipped them! The reason is idolatry plain and simple! When Paul wrote this letter to the Romans, there were sex orgies at the altar of worship to other Gods, made in the form of animals and praised. Men were having sex with other men as a form of worship. This is not the same context as someone who is born with more x then y genes and attracted to the same sex. What about 1 Corinthians 6:9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? — have you ever done wrong? Do some more homework!
Theresa fleer
You need to make sure you
You need to make sure you interpret the Bible correctly, and not just to push your own beliefs. The original Greek and Hebrew that the Bible was written in NEVER uses the word homosexual . If you do not correctly interpret the bible, you would still be sitting in a church that separates the sexes, men would still have concubines, your child would be stoned when he disrespected you, and you would be an abomination to God if you ate your shrimp and lobster…make sure you know what you are saying..don’t be so holy you can’t touch the sinner next to you…you are only saved by the grace of God…nothing of your own..study the scriptures to find yourself approved of God….know the language it was written, the time and for whom.
Robin
Matt:) I am a lesbian in a
Matt:) I am a lesbian in a very long term committed relationship. Sex is the lowest item on my agenda. I love my partner heart and soul and if we never had sex again, I would still love her. We are christians that believe in God. People have a right to their opinions- I certainly support that. Just as you want the right to your opinion, so should you respect those who don’t agree with you. I believe God created us all equally, with love. I live everyday in service to others. My life is blessed beyond belief. Be careful about judging others- I’m pretty sure that is also mentioned in the bible as a “sin”.
Jessica
You are an idiot and
You are an idiot and obviously didn’t understand what she is saying. The bible flat out condemns all these things. Yet oh no, it’s okay, but homosexuality is the only thing that isn’t. You are taking the word homosexual way out of context. You do know that words from that long ago don’t hold the same meanings they do today. That homosexual most likely referred to prostitution and pedophilia and not consenting loving male and male relationships.
Katie
Matt,
Matt,
You are so sweet, and I appreciate how you left this comment. As a duty for being a Christian, our love for others should be to help them. Love is not just about acceptance, is it? That’s why we are nice to people even if we don’t agree. However, true love is about helping others realize their mistakes. If not, is our mother or father’s love for us only based on feeling? Or is it on action? I want people who love me to call me out and tell me what I do wrong. If they don’t, they don’t love me.
Go you. My friend, MERGAN, reads this too and agrees. We are encouraged that people like you are still alive, and continue to voice your true opinions. We can’t let people control us. As Christians we have to be set apart, and you rock.
Sincerely your sisters in Christ,
Mergan & Kate
Zack
Great job on standing strong.
Great job on standing strong. Homosexuality is a sin. I am going against homosexuality in my argumentative essay at school. Please pray for me.
Brad
Matt, you are hand picking
Matt, you are hand picking things out of that scripture to make your point, just like most Christians that are against gay marriage. If you say “that’s as clear as it gets”, then that means you are also saying all liars will go to hell (yourself included, because you lie every single day, just like everyone else). So saying that homosexuals are going to hell is very misguided. I am not the most religious person in the world, but I am a follower of Christ. I say follower of Christ instead of Christian, because I believe the powerful love Jesus has for ALL OF HIS CHILDREN is stated pretty clear in the bible as well. His love, the blood he shed, his life he gave conquers ALL sin! Which, in the bible, it says that all sin is the same in the eyes of God. So if you say homosexuality is a sin because “the bible says so”, then you must also believe that homosexuality is exactly the same as a married man lusting over a beautiful woman, and I’m guessing you don’t think that man would go to hell for having lustful thoughts, now would you? Quit contradicting yourself, you can’t keep using that argument, and you can’t have it both ways. Either everything the bible says is to be taken literal, and everyone goes to hell because “we all fall short of the glory of God”, or, the blood of Christ is strong enough to save everyone from eternal damnation. In my humble opinion the blood of Christ washes away all of my sins (and the sins of my homosexual brothers and sisters in Christ). In your opinion it doesn’t, but that’s all it is, your opinion. Quit using God’s word to promote your bigotry, your hate, and your injustice. God bless
Zack
I am happy to see that
I am happy to see that someone else is standing strong on Biblical truth.
Marlana
If you want to be taken
If you want to be taken seriously, go back to the NEW testament. Not the outdated Old testament (which you seem to love to quote), from before the time of Jesus. What is offensive is YOUR interpretation of the bible that you seem arrogant enough to believe is the correct one.
I sure hope you’ve never had premarital sex. Because if you have, God sees all sin as equal, and that would make you as bad as two adults of the same gender having consensual sex. Or are you the exception?
Steven
Homosexuality is just about
Homosexuality is just about sex? I’m sorry but what it means to be gay is to have an attraction to someone of the same sex the same way heterosexuals are attracted to each other.
And also those verses are misleading as they are often read out of context or mis interpreted.
Notice how you are quoting in English? That sir is a translation.Let’s try reading it in the original Greek shall we?
in the 1 cor and tim passages the word homosexual has only been used in quite recent translations.
The original word is aresonokoitai and another one commonly translated as homosexualty would be malakoi. There are debates over the meanings of these words but is believe to be those who bought the services of young underage effeminate boys, a common practice back then.
The reason any possible reference to homosexuality refers to sex and not love is maybe because it is not a sin to have a intimate relationship with someone of the same gender. but in those days it was very common for men to do sex acts together in worship of heathen gods,or in temples and other pagan practices. that is a big difference to what we understand today as same sex attraction.
Mattanza
Matt, please… you ought to
Matt, please… you ought to take a minute to reconsider such an embarrassing argument. You’re a victim of ATP, a state of mind you can so easily fall into based on your upbringing that you fail to understand how actually see for yourself what might not be the case on such a topic as this.
The concept of sexual orientation is a very recent one. It means: “a person’s sexual identity in relation to the gender to which they are attracted; the fact of being heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual.” In short, what feels natural to us as people in forming a relationship with someone. Being gay is most certainly not a choice. If it were a choice, we wouldn’t have so many LGBT people in the world raped by heterosexual men and women in attempt to “cure” them, as they so repugnantly assert. I feel genuine pitty for people such as yourself, as you fail to realise that even if it were a sin, it’s one that God can still easily erase fro your record when Jesus is accepted as lord and saviour. As it is not sin whatsoever, you need to learn to admit defeat instead of trying to take us all back to the Stormont Days of Old.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezQjNJUSraY
Andy
Unfortunately for Holli, the
Unfortunately for Holli, the best biblical parallels for homosexuality are not divorce, slavery, or dietary restrictions, but other sexual sins like incest, adultery and bestiality. Should Christians welcome and celebrate those too? Isn’t that being truly inclusive? Does Jesus champion those people as well? GLBT advocates recast Jesus in their own image, ignoring his calls for holiness and his utter rejection of sin. Jesus elevated the sexual standards of his day to an even higher standard than many of the Pharisees (Mt 19). His words to the woman caught in adultery are instructive: “Neither do I condemn you, but go and leave your life of sin.” You are free to advocate for so called “marriage equality” all you want, but you call the gospel into disrepute by hitching your wagon to Jesus and his teachings.
Sarah
God is the same yesterday,
God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. You are attempting to change his laws to accommodate our world today. Homosexuality is mentioned multiple times in the Bible so it something that was clearly important and not something that can be ignored or looked over. The Old Laws that you mentioned such as eating shrimp or a rebellious son and were given to the nation of Israel, not to Christians. However, homosexuality is mentioned multiple times outside of this so it does not fall into this category.
As for someone with a son that is homosexual– If you had a son that had a problem with a sin such as stealing, would you justify that it was okay because they were a good person inside? Wouldn’t you instead pray for them and help them to understand why stealing is wrong rather than support and encourage the sin?
I am not trying to convince non-Christians that homosexuality in wrong but felt that I can say this since you say you are a Christian. I will also continue to love all those I come in contact with. However, Christians should obey what God has instructed and take a stand for what the Bible says.
Jessica
Oh please sarah you’re a
Oh please sarah you’re a nutcase. Jesus messages are not to judge and to love. And it def. seems like you are doing one more than the other. Homosexuality is mentioned I believe seven times. That’s not a lot. That’s barely anything. The bible also says to stone your children among a bunch of other things. Like not wearing mixed fabrics. What makes one rule something you’re allowed to follow and another you’re not. And stealing is choice. Being gay has been proven to be something you are born with. Your comparisons lack critical thinking. Homosexuality doesn’t mean the same thing back when the bible was written as it does today. As the author adressed it was most likely refering to prostituion and pedophilia hence, all your statements are null and void.
Ruth
Actually, I would like to
Actually, I would like to politely counter your argument, Sarah. In contrast, perhaps not the entirety of the Bible was written by Christ himself, or interpreted in a differing way that he meant in, and therefore not precisely what he actually said. Not that I’m here to undermine the holy book, for that is never my intent. But I have to side with Holli, if we did not accommodate to the world today. If not, then you would be equal to that of an object, being and woman, I assume from your name, if you are a man, I apologize for the confusion, but I also assume that you yourself would not want to be treated that way? As God does believe in equality, does he not? And the argument she gives as well is that perhaps homosexuality is not a sin. As well as those verses and points in the Bible you quoted are very widely interpreted, some believed to be about rape as well. As a further example, if we are following old times directly, then the Pope himself has the final say of how Christians should live their lives, what God wants, and being the Pope means he believed by the Church and worldwide Christians to be the most educated man on the subject of Christianity and best fit to be the leader and messenger of God. And he himself believes in the acceptance and equality of LGBT. An example, he stated “Gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgenders have much to offer to the Church. They should be accepted with open arms as they are.” He has given many speeches on the topic all supporting, not just being nice to homosexuals, but accepting that it is not a sin in the eyes of God. Again, I know it is difficult to tell over text, but I say this with the upmost respect for you and your opinion, and I am in no way attempting to begin a fight, demean you, tell you that I know everything, nor can I tell you that God has come to me personally and told me exactly what is right and what is wrong. This is simply my humble opinion,and just happens to be in contrast with yours. But I greatly appreciate how king you are in your words, and what an open-minded and compassionate person you appear to be. Your opinion was in no way rude or forceful, and you even offered to love someone no matter their sexuality. I think you are a role model for many Christians who believe it is a sin, being the way they get their message across often is garish and hateful. I agree with you strongly that all people should be welcomed, even if they have different beliefs. How awful would it be if we were all separated, we would be full of hate and evil work the hands of the devil, so to speak. 😉 It is so very nice to speak with someone so sensible and respectful on the subject 😀
April
People who quote Leviticus
People who quote Leviticus make me laugh. And makes me think of this article http://dmcr35.blogspot.com/2008/05/this-was-forwarded-to-me-by-my-friend.htm
Cassie
Holli, thanks for writing
Holli, thanks for writing this. I, too, am a Christian who is a supporter of our call to love everyone by and through God. I am also a strong supporter of equal rights for both constitutional and biblical reasons.
To those commenting on specific biblical passages and taking them as the hard a fast, word-for-word literal truth, I believe there is a failure on your part to really evaluate the entirety of God’s message. Holli is not selectively dismissing parts of the word of God. Instead, she is approaching it from a holistic, bigger picture viewpoint that takes the entire message of the Bible into account. And even this holistic view is only a fraction of what God knows and understands and is limited to the understanding of the men who wrote it to begin with.
That said, we are not intended to know/understand everything. We are not intended to decide who is ‘deserving’ of God’s love. We are not intended to ‘heal’ people of their sins, whatever they may be. Our job, as God’s children and followers, is to plant a seed of love and acceptance. Our job is to spread the word of His love and to encourage others to come closer to Him. It is as simple as the old children’s saying “What Would Jesus Do”. The answer to that is simply to love and provide a way for others to discover and experience that love. If there is healing to be done, God will facilitate it through our love towards others.
It saddens me that there are so many Christians out there who shun and turn others away. I do believe that, for even the murderers and other wrong-doers in the world, we should find a way to love and forgive them and teach them about God, even if the only way to love is through Jesus’s heart rather than our own. If Jesus resides in each of us and we are called to be his hands and feet, we should love and forgive all as best as we can in the hopes that Jesus’s love through us helps to heal them.
I would encourage everyone to approach both your feelings about homosexuality as well as the case for homosexual marriage from the bigger picture – that we are to love all and that, by denying marraige to any two people who are in LOVE (homosexuality is NOT just about sex), we are limiting the constitutional and natural rights of those individuals in this country.
That guy
Marriage shouldn’t be in the
Marriage shouldn’t be in the government agenda as it is a non-profit member agreement. Government only cares about corporate-person asset merging and that should be retained to civil union. Let this idiotic conversation of what marriage should be stay within the confines of the different churches and non-governmental organizations. We have child sex traffic, debt, impending wars, starvation, genocide, and corruption that are mildly more pressing than whether you can file your taxes with you partner or not. This nation is a collection of chickens fighting over a piece of grain.
amber
Thanks That Guy. We have
Thanks That Guy. We have bigger pressing problems than picking on one that doesn’t hurt anyone. It is a private choice around a positive thing…love. What about war, homelessness, child abuse? What about the things that hurt masses of people. Leave homosexuals alone. Let’s face it…that’s about your personal fear and frankly it is ridiculous! There’s nothing worse than the self-righteous Christian. Its up to God to judge that. Mind your own business.
Shannon Smith
How on earth can you possibly
How on earth can you possibly justify a statement like “Homosexuality is not about love, its about sex”? Just because you don’t feel that way about men? You can repeat it as many times as you want– it’s still ridiculous.
Matt
Shannon, it is very simple
Shannon, it is very simple and there is nothing ridiculous about saying “Homosexuality is not about love its about sex”. You simply can not define what homosexuality is without the word sex. It has nothing to do with how I feel towards men, it just the truth. Take away the sexual aspect of it and there is no homosexuality.
Here are a couple definitions for you from Merriam-Webster dictionary-
Definition of HOMOSEXUAL
1: of, relating to, or characterized by a tendency to direct sexual desire toward another of the same sex
2: of, relating to, or involving sexual intercourse between persons of the same sex
Definition of HOMOSEXUALITY
1: the quality or state of being homosexual
2: erotic activity with another of the same sex
As you can see there is nothing mentioned about love, it is about sex.
Beth
Definition of HETEROSEXUAL
Definition of HETEROSEXUAL
1
a : of, relating to, or characterized by a tendency to direct sexual desire toward the opposite sex
b : of, relating to, or involving sexual intercourse between individuals of opposite sex
2
: of or relating to different sexes
— het·ero·sex·u·al·i·ty noun
— het·ero·sex·u·al·ly adverb
As you can clearly see by your own reasoning, Matt, for heterosexuality also there is nothing mentioned about love, it is about sex. Take the sexual aspect out, and there is no heterosexuality either.
Petra
Matt, Andy, Sarah, Nick, Ryan
Matt, Andy, Sarah, Nick, Ryan, Emmily, you’re taking the verses out of the historical context. At the time Paul was alive, there was no concept of homosexuality. The Bible’s clobber passages were written about same-sex acts between heterosexual persons, and do not address the subject of homosexual acts between a committed gay couple, because the concept of a person being homosexual did not exist at the time the Bible was written. During the time in which the New Testament was written, the Roman conquerors of the region frequently and openly engaged in homosexual acts between themselves and boys. Such acts were also common between Roman men and their male slaves. These acts of non-consensual sex were considered normal and socially acceptable. They were, however, morally repulsive to Paul, as today they would be to everyone, gay and straight. You can’t push today’s definition of homosexuality on a text that was written before the concept of being attracted to only the opposite gender existed.
The bible is clear that excessive, exploitative, and non marital sex is sinful. By barring gays from getting married, you’re actively encouraging them to sin, and then blaming them when they do.
Taking the Bible out of its historical context and/or cherrypicking verses has enabled ‘Christians’ in the past to protest the civil rights movement as well as a woman’s right to vote. Don’t be one of those people.
Angela
You do realize the definition
You do realize the definition of heterosexual also has nothing to do with love either.
Jaya
Matt. You keep saying that it
Matt. You keep saying that it cannot be defined any other way but what you are failing to see is that words are made up AND defined by HUMAN BEINGS. Not to mention you are using the wrong word. Homosexuality is not used to define the nature of a relationship. It is used to describe a person. A homosexual is one who finds their sex more attractive than the opposite sex. Heterosexuality is defined using sex as well. Never have you heard some one say “Wow that couple is so heterosexual/homosexual!” when they were trying to describe just how much people love each other because its just not a term used to describe the feelings in an intimate relationship shared between two human beings. Stop saying homosexuality is only based on sex because of its definition. Homosexuality does not describe how a person feels it describes what they find attractive.
Elizabeth
The problem is, there’s still
The problem is, there’s still a lot of cherry-picking in these readings of the Bible. What about the passages in the Bible that condemn the eating of shellfish, and having body piercings? And as Holli mentioned in her original post, what about the passages of the Bible that talk about putting children to death if they are disobedient, or other laws that specifically condone slavery?
If you’re going to preach against homosexuality based on a few passages from the Bible, then you also shouldn’t pierce your ears or allow your children to pierce their ears, and for Heaven’s sake don’t eat bacon. You also need to sacrifice an animal every time you sin. And slavery is fine, as long as you don’t own one of your fellow countrymen. Also, you can’t trim your beard in a specific way, and people with a physical handicap shouldn’t be allowed in church. So if you were born paraplegic, don’t even think about attending church, because if you do, you’re going to offend God.
But wait, you say, Jesus’ death was the beginning of the new Covenant, a new agreement. That means we don’t need to worry about those things anymore. It’s good and fine to eat at Red Lobster now, and since our sins are covered by the blood of the Lamb, we don’t have to spend our time and money maintaining sacrificial herds for the next time we utter a swear word.
Christians also justify no longer following the old Testament laws because many of those laws were practical for the time, but we don’t have to worry about such things in this time and place, i.e., it is impractical to raise moisture-loving pigs when all you own is sand and a tent and you live in the desert, and it’s easy to get sick from shellfish if you don’t know how to prepare it properly.
But the problem with using both of these arguments in conjunction with the condemnation of homosexuality is that you’re still employing the use of a pick-and-choose system. We have chosen to adhere to the laws that are convenient for us, or laws that don’t give us that “squick” factor. We choose to be okay with people trimming (or even shaving!) their beards, we choose to be okay with pierced ears, we choose not to kill our children if they are disrespectful, and we choose to preach against homosexuality.
Read through Leviticus, and you will find a huge slew of laws that nobody follows today. Yet out of all of those laws, the condemnation of homosexuality is one of the few that has stuck throughout modern Christianity. We have come to an age where we recognize that people should have basic human rights, so no, you shouldn’t allow your child to be stoned to death if they back-talk you, even though the Bible says you should, and no, you can’t have a slave, even if the Bible says you can. But it’s okay for you to tell gay people that what they do is wrong, and forbid them from being together. That starts to look like you’re just picking passages out of the Bible that support your personal discomfort with homosexuality.
The other thing is, you can’t compare homosexuality to things like thievery, incest, bestiality, adultery, rape, or pedophilia, because in these instances, the sinner is committing a crime or a sin against an unwilling party. That’s what sin is about–hurting yourself or other people. The opposite of “do unto others what you would have them do unto you”. Whenever we sin, whenever we hurt someone, we are making a decision to hurt someone else for our own gain, however small or large that gain may be. Sin is about being selfish, valuing your needs over the well-being of someone else.
But the thing is, homosexual couples are comprised of two consenting adults. There is no victim and perpetrator here, as there is with a thief and her victim, or a rapist and his victim. You have two people who want to be together. It isn’t as if gay people are out there trying to “convert” straight people. Homosexual people seek out other homosexual people for relationships.
Gay couples are in their relationships for the same reason that straight people are–because they want to be in a relationship with each other, because they have found something special in each other. And just because sex is a component of gay relationships, that doesn’t mean that sex is the only thing that the relationship is about. Just because the media often has a bad habit of portraying gay men as these flamingo-feathered glittery sex machines, that doesn’t mean that all, or even most, gay men adhere to this formula, and to judge an entire group of people by the actions or representations of a few is a gross oversimplification. That’s like saying all black people are lazy because you once saw a black person taking a nap.
If gay relationships were only about sex, then why would so many gay couples want marriage equality? Why get married if all you’re going to do is have sex? You do not have to be married in order to successfully have sex. Marriage is something you do when you and your partner want to commit to each other for the rest of your lives. If all gay couples wanted was to have sex, they could do that without the hassle of fighting publicly for marriage equality. Marriage is about commitment and love, two very important values. It seems like Christians should be supportive of that.
Don’t get me wrong. I am all for people believing in what they want to believe. That’s part of what makes America so great–the freedom of belief. But if you want other people to respect your religious viewpoints, then you need to respect theirs, or the lack thereof, and this means you can’t restrict the right of gay people to get married just because your interpretation of the Bible says that homosexuality is bad.
jo
Holli, I appreciate your
Holli, I appreciate your openness and loving beliefs. The rest of you are also entitled to your beliefs all can argue the Biblical/Christian beliefs/values/laws with Holli all day long. As far as The United States of America is concerned, all people are created equal and should have equal rights under the law. The US Constitution mandates freedom of religion and separation of church and state for all of its citizens. I am not required to follow Christian law and am Constitutionally protected from having to do so.
Amy L
Thank you for sharing your
Thank you for sharing your thoughts about this issue. I’m a Christian, but am ashamed of how the LGBT community is being persecuted by the mainstream Christian community. I feel like shouting “What Would Jesus Do?!”, because I have no doubt that He would LOVE his neighbors.
Nick
Thank you Sarah for being
Thank you Sarah for being well versed in the words of the Lord. It is not up to us to say what is right or wrong, God has already done that for us. I love all sinners because we are all sinner, so how can I say I love my brother in christ if I do not help him with the sin in his life, no matter if it is lying, cheating, stealing, or being homosexual. I feel sad Holli that you can not see the true meaning of God’s word. And as a christian I can not see how you could get the views you have from reading the same bible that I read. I pray that one day you can be a true advocate for christ by truly knowing his word.
Ashley Christie
As A Christian I Hope Your
As A Christian I Hope Your Helping Your Brothers And Sisters In Christ For The Sin They Are WillingLy Know They Are commiting When They Eat Shrimp, Or When They Plant Two Seeds In Their Garden, When They Wear Two Fabrics, When They Trim Their Breads Or Get Body Piereings Because “As A Christian” That Should Be NO different Than Being A Homosexual…Correct? I Respect Anyones Beliefs Because I Would Want You To Respect Mine But Instead Of Staring Your Sentences “As A Christian” Try Using “As A Hypocrite…” Then Maybe We Can Understand Better.
Earle
Reads like a few of you have
Reads like a few of you have cherry-picked your translations. Those Corinthians citations in your quotes read nothing like the KJV I was raised with. How do you know your choice of translation is more accurate? Are you all Greek scholars?
Here’s a demonstration of just how different a passage can be rendered based on the translators’ mindset and biases. You’re probably familiar with something that goes like this:
“The fool has said in his heart there is no god.”
It starts two different Psalms. In a Jewish bible I find:
“The benighted man thinks God does not care.”
What a difference! Which do you think is closer to Divine Inspiration?
Trisha Babcock
Hi Holli! I am a transsexual
Hi Holli! I am a transsexual lesbian woman who was once part of the Assembly of God Church. They talked about loving your neighbor as you love yourself etc… They forgave and showed their love for those children that had children out of wedlock, they forgave and should their love those who committed crimes of lust against their spouses, they forgave and showed their love for those who committed crimes against others. They condemned the LGBT for loving each other and their love is not based on sex but the same feelings a heterosexual couple feels towards each other. They hate transgender people even more for not wanting to live as they were born. I was 5 years of age when I knew I was a girl and what was between my legs was not supposed to be there. Since in the 60’s sexual teachings was not taught or shown to children how could I know I was a girl? I made the mistake in telling our pastor in the baptist church who used to say if you have a problem come to him and he will help you. I did not know what was going to happen next I thought he would help me in becoming the girl I knew I was. His first words were I was going to hell and condemned for my evil thoughts! I was crushed deeply which drove me to hide who I was for 43 years. It took 35 years for God to get my attention and get me back in church. I have been married 2 times the first was a huge mistake because i thought with lust not love. My second God brought me to her and we had 12 wonderful years and adopted a little girl who I adore, because neither one of us could have children. After 43 years of torturing myself, battling who I was by always out performing the men next to me to prove to myself I was a man and to others, I nearly died from trying to castrate myself.
Now I have had 3 strikes of lighting hit me, 6 car accidents, a dozen motorcycle accidents, a couple of farming accidents, a virus that attacked my heart, severe pneumonia, a severe allergic reaction to the heart meds I was given, not to mention the incompetent doctors who missed the heart problem and the reaction to the drugs which put me on disability. This time I through my pastor out the door of my house for saying the same thing to me that the first pastor did!
My faith in God has not wavered once since coming out as transgender and living now 2 years as a woman on hormones. I have brought several people lost souls back to God by showing His love to them, helped many get over their fears of trans people, reinforced those who were faltering and ready to leave God behind. Who are the real sinners here those who keep bring God’s lost and rejected children back to Him?, or those who drive them from Him saying they know what God wants?
In the world straight or gay as a transgender women I am at the bottom of society. I gave up all my status as a man to find extreme peace and happiness as a woman crossing a line most fear to be evil.
I believe God loves all His children not just a few! Like any parent you love your children to the end and so does God!
Hugs
Trisha
I
Tonya Houston
Hi Trisha. You are courageous
Hi Trisha. You are courageous to share such a personal life story. I hope your story helps others who are on the shoes you were in for so many years. I’m truly heartbroken and sorry for the way “the church” treated you. God commands us to love- Jesus showed us how- and yet we run around as stupid humans that learn nothing. You are loved, you are one of God’s children. Never forget that.
Cortney
Matt: Honestly if you think
Matt: Honestly if you think it’s all about sex, you’re mistaken. My cousin was gay and was picked on, hazed, beat up, and laughed at all throughout high school because of it. He also commited suicide 2 years after high school because of what people told him. I don’t believe that he would have went through all that pain in misery just for sex. He was a homosexual, which by your deffinition means he had sexual feeling for someone. Sexual usually do arise in people either overtime or to people that seem really attracted to us. Don’t speak about the LBGT community if you’ve never been there. Because honestly you have no idea what they go through on a daily basis. You wouldn’t marry many woman, you probably wouldn’t stone your child to death just because he/she was disobedient, and you probably enjoy some kind seafood. So obviously those are sinful things as well.
Angie
my son attempted suicide
my son attempted suicide three times, the first at 13 years old, because he wanted to be “normal” and have a family and children. He was beaten up at school- dragged behind a car, on and on. He never practiced homosexuality- but fought the urgings. He attempted suicide again at 21 – later stating how much he hated being gay and hating other gay people. As Christian parents we 100% accepted him and provided LGBT activities and mentors, the only person who couldn’t accept it was him. A year ago at age 30, he jumped in front of a tractor trailer doing 70 miles per hour. AND HE SURVIVED! yes he needed many surgeries and pain, but returned to work 6 months later. He isn’t in a wheelchair but does limp and is mistaken quite often as a war veteran. It took this wake up call for him to accept and love himself. GOD didn’t cause him to jump in front of a tractor-trailer, but God would not have allowed it if he didn’t have a purpose for his life. God showed out in his life. He has finally come to terms with the fact that he is a homosexual, and he does have a male companion. Fortunately, I have never condemned my son, but am a constant in his life. Has he come to terms with the sexual piece of homosexuality, absolutely not. So I do not care what anybody thinks about homosexuality being a choice, when it touches your life, and you see and experience the pain, hardship and suffering of your precious child struggling to accept who he is, you will understand that it is not a choice. GOD wouldn’t give up on Him, and it took something very drastic for my precious precious son to finally accept himself. So, to all of you misguided persons, trust in the Lord with all your heart, lean not on your own understanding, in all your ways acknowledge him, and he will keep your path straight. And as far as sex is concerned, whether homosexual or heterosexual ,the Bible states sex is for procreation – not enjoyment. So there are millions of heterosexuals committing sin every time they jump in bed and have sex with their partner for any other reason than procreation.
Ryan
Jesus would not persecute
Jesus would not persecute homosexuals and neither would His disciples. But surely, surely practicing homosexuals will not enter the kingdom of heaven. This is black and white. 100% God stamped.
“Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God”
(I Corinthians 6:9)
You cannot pick and choose what you want to believe out of the Bible, for ALL scripture is profitable…. (2 Timothy 3:16). Since you profess Christianity with your mouth, then also you are aware that you will be judged. If you disagree in your actions with God’s Word, then you should be worried about the day that comes.
“No man can serve two master: for either he will hate the one, and love the other or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other.” (Matthew 6:24)
To be a Christian, you must fully submit yourself to the Christ for He said “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me” (Matthew 28:18). Not to the world. Who, or what, are you submitting yourself to, if not the Lord? This is one of the cornerstones of living a Christian life!
There were many things have I had to change about myself when I was baptized and gave my life to Christ; including indulging in pornography, fornicating, keeping my eyes “in-line” since now I am a married man, and also dealing with my money in a way which it isn’t covetous, as I used to be of most importance to me. To do all these things again I would not trade my soul. Not one, for my relationship with Christ!
Again, are you putting the desires of the LGBT community on a pedestal above the will of God? Tread cautiously, because God FORBIDS idolatry.
Living the Christian life means walking the road less traveled (Matthew 7:13-14). It is not an easy way of life, for we (all people) are attacked with temptations and desires. It’s this temptations that test our will, according to God’s Will, for the kingdom which is coming.
I hope something that has been written here can change your mind. God Bless America…
Jessica
OMG FOR THE LAST TIME! IT is
OMG FOR THE LAST TIME! IT is not black and white. Because while it does straight out condemn homosexuality you are still ignoring the words historical context. It does not mean the same thing it does today and is being horribly mistranslated. I’ve taken tons of religious studies classes which all provide proof that the bible is refering to pedophilia and prostitution. Yes it condems homsexuality, but not the homosexuality we know today.
Ariel
This was a lovely read and is
This was a lovely read and is exactly how I feel about Jesus and his message to Christians that are true followers of him. God is Love, Jesus tells us to love everyone and bring them in. To be examples of God’s love. And I for one am proud to say I am a Christian Ally. I have seen my fellow LGBT brothers and sisters, my friends feel like they don’t matter, like they aren’t welcome. Have to search for a church that wil include them and it physically and emotionally hurts me as much as them. We are supposed to be the Church, we are supposed to be the Body of Christ. Let’s act like it.
Teresa
There is not one verse in any
There is not one verse in any part of the Scriptures (both Old and New Covenant) that support homosexual behavior. However, there are many that SPECIFICALLY state it is sinful and others that support this truth. Jesus stated a marriage is between one man and one woman. Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed specifically because of homosexuality. (Hence, the origin of the word “sodomy” that we use today). Claiming someone is “cherry picking” about this topic is a deceitful way to excuse things that are unacceptable to God, but that we as humans want to decide for ourselves. All of Scripture warns of sexual impurity and immorality. But what is specifically stated concerns homosexuality and beastiality. We are commanded to love God FIRST and FOREMOST, then others as we love ourselves. When a Christian will not accept what God has stated in the Bible because it doesn’t fit their idea of “fair” they have put themselves in the position of God. Never are we commanded to put a stamp of approval on something He has called sin. We are told to not judge those “of” the world. This does not mean judging actions, it is referring to judging a person’s righteousness, or lack thereof. No one can judge a person’s heart because only God knows it. We also know the heart is deceitfully wicked above all things and without cure. So, we must be very cautious and only use God’s Word in our lives. Remember, satan can and does use Scripture to deceive. (ex: in the garden of Eden). Therefore, we must be aware and wise of his schemes. When we turn away from what God has said is sin, we are turning away from Him. The one who loves Him is the one who obeys Him. In today’s culture it is very difficult for a Christian to stand firm in what the Bible teaches because the world is controlled by satan and he is our enemy. He will use whatever tactic he can to deceive and destroy Christians. Do not think that you are immune to his ways. The only way to overcome is to submit to God first. If we love someone we love them as a person, but that doesn’t mean we accept any sinful behavior. A homosexual most likely knows a Christian who lives by God’s Word is not accepting of their behavior. But, that doesn’t mean we treat the PERSON negatively. That is not how Jesus taught us to live. But beware that He did not teach to condone any sin, in anyone. That is why we are all “equal”, because we all sin. If we buy into apostasy and lies we are not His children, we are the devil’s children. So, I humbly plead for you to not take what I say as being truth, search the Scriptures daily and follow ONLY what they say. Not what you think, not what you feel, but what is written. May the Lord Jesus lead us into all truth and godliness. May He alone receive the glory when we obey His commands and love Him with all of our heart, soul, mind and strength.
Chuck Kreml
I find myself thinking about
I find myself thinking about Christian to Christian. The harshest comments Jesus had was to the religious leaders who missed the point. Are you empowered to me or me to you? I think of Jesus not just calling out to stop the misrepresentation, but also to protect the abused by the “righteous.” He stood up to them who wanted to exercise the letter of the law in stoning a woman caught in adultery, (and at the same time trap Him). However, Jesus showed the balance by challenging the accusers to consider their own purity before throwing a stone but then also turning to the woman to “go and sin no more.” Apparently the “consenting adults” argument does not apply to adulterers. What sin(s) are we called out on to repent? If adulterers have a higher despair rate that causes them to leave responsibilities with their children or to consider suicide, should we as society just embrace them with “open arms,” or consider marching with them in future “Adulterer Pride” parades or events?
Rebekah Youngman
Consider reading this
Consider reading this brilliantly written essay by Dr. Bill Buffie: ‘Marriage Equality, Religion, and Politics’. and add your signature to support equality for ALL Indiana citizens. Add your voice to “One Voice Indiana”.
http://www.onevoiceindiana.org/religion-politics-2/religion-politics/
AngieNorris
So well-said! This is
So well-said! This is exactly how I feel, I’m totally sharing this now and definitely showing this to my kiddos:) Thanks for a great article!
Melinda
Jesus came to Fulfill the law
Jesus came to Fulfill the law. To make it complete. The law of Moses was INSPIRED by God. It came through a sinful man a Murderer, he took multiple wives, ordained genocides, but our God never turned his back on him. Our beloved brother Jesus/Yahshua made a very valid statement when his followers asked him why a man would not marry a woman. Matthew 19:12 NIV – For there are eunuchs who were BORN THAT WAY, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others–and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”
People will follow the Law of Man before they follow Jesus who was SIN FREE and a split image of GOD. In order to understand the Bible we must read it entirely no cherry picking. Read Mathew, Mark, Luke, John. Jesus gives us great teachings!! The law of man is incomplete, but Jesus words last from beginning to end. Praise God!
E J
If the message Jesus brought
If the message Jesus brought was love, grace and compassion, any supposed ‘Christian’ stance that is not loving, graceful or compassionate is wrong. It’s very simple. I’m not saying it’s easy, but it’s very simple. I, for example, find it incredibly difficult to show love, grace and compassion towards people who use the Bible to justify homophobia.
And, incidentally, the Bible is NOT the word of God. It is a collection of accounts of the actions of people who encountered God. People who, like us, were prone to jealousy, fear, anger and poor communication skills.
Spen
Matt,
Matt,
What you have done is so wrong! I feel sad for you as well as the people you have offended. I am heterosexual (and yes I love having sex with my wife as should any married person with their spouse Gay or straight) however I believe the same as the article above. My parents and pastor might I add do not. But the difference between them and you is simple: they do not try to attack anyone or demean them, or even more importantly try to tell them they don’t feel how they do. My point is no matter what you believe there is no call for how you approached it, and I hope someday you can realize that.
Dana Tomlin
Not all homosexuality couples
Not all homosexuality couples are together for sex.
No one on Earth can determine what God sees as sin or not. The Bible can be interpereted in many different ways.
The Bible claims that God loves ALL of his children, but people always say that homosexuals are bad people and they’re all destined to go to hell. YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO DETERMINE OUR DESTINATION UNLESS YOU ARE GOD! Stop judging people.
Michael White
Holli, first off, I would
Holli, first off, I would like to say thank you from the bottom of my heart as well as my family for your support and your Christian views! My husband and I have been together for 25 years now and thru the years we have seen and been the brunt of a lot of prejudice over the years! You see Holi, I am terminally ill and we left our home in Houston, TX to move to the deep south bible belt in Mississippi about 13 years ago because my health was declining and we needed to slow down and enjoy life more. During these past 13 years we have experienced true hate and prejudice like the kind you only hear about or read about! Although the small town we lived in everyone knew we were gay but still had a lot of friends and supporters. It was not until we opened some DVD/Game rental and electronic stores that the “Christians” really took notice of us and could not allow us to prosper because we were an abomination (as they gracefully put it)! So what happened next was a horror story that I never wish on anyone. Because of our communities “Family Values” we our thriving and once prosperous business was basically destroyed overnight , we were faced with death threats, being burned out of our home, I was ran off the road several times and all of this was done under the guise of God and the Church! Because of God and the church we were forced to leave our home and loose our business for fear of our safety! The same church groups that we supported and donated to monthly from our stores were the same people that were basically running us out of town! We were forced to move to Fort Worth where now the only income we have is my Social Security Disability check and we are homeless! We went from being VERY productive members of society with a strong presence in our community to having to live with relatives while we try and figure out what to do! This has brought me to the brink of suicide as I sat back and watched everything that we worked our entire lives for vanish in front of my eyes! It’s people like your family that helps restore just a little bit of my faith in humanity!
Michael and Mark
Holli
Michael,
Michael,
You are brave to share your story. I’m so sorry for what you have been through. Prayers for peace and guidance as you discern what is next for you both. Perhaps this site will help lead you to a find an accepting and loving community near you. May you feel God’s love even when humanity gets in the way. Peace to you, friend.
lindamarie
I keep trying to find where
I keep trying to find where in the Bible it says we become Christians by how we interpret the Bible. I also wonder where in the Bible that certain activities preclude one from being a Christian — and more especially certain ways of loving. My understanding keeps coming back to being kept as Christians by faith, not works, lest any person should boast. God is a God of justice and will put everything in it’s right order (which is the true meaning of justice.) Even the law is not static. How can grace be static? The alpha and omega of my life is Jesus. Never once did he condemn homosexuals. How does a follower of his presume to do more?
Ann
I believe that the
I believe that the comandments are still relevant to Christianity to this day but!! It doesn’t mean we judge n point our fingures at people for their sin. The law should be followed be love n grace not by regulations n rules. I hate that people feel like that they can’t came to church and fill that they can not sit in cause of what they have done. It is not for us to judge but god alone. I go to a baptist church that was and is still slightly still is full of judgement pushing people away which is completely wrong. It’s between god n that person and their personal relationship with Jesus to change their sinful ways. Before coming back to god I use yo get drunk all the time but now I gave it to god n he closed that door begind. This is not to say that I don’t don’t sin n get it wrong but the fact I have a close personal relationship with Jesus I give it to him asking him for his forgiveness. I would love if for my church to be full of people from the commuinity learning about Jesus ande being a testomony and a witeness of Jesus.
Stop judging n start loving each other
God bless
Jeff
I consider myself a Christian
I consider myself a Christian. Simply show me where JESUS says something about being gay. Jesus said a lot about feeding the poor, loving our neighbors, and visiting the sick or imprisoned. Above all these things he said love the Lord your God with all your heart soul and mind. If being gay were important Jesus would have mentioned it.
Ann
This is quiet interesting I
This is quiet interesting I believe we should stay true to god’s word n follow the bible but love everyone n accept each other like Jesus did. The law is still part of today within the New Testament but through love n grace rather then rules n regulations. Praying and guiding someone is better then pointing n judging someone.
N we should never turn anyone away cause of their sins but bring them to god cause in the end we are all sinners. I believe giving it to god is the best way.
We should accept everyone into church no matter what. I pray for my church to be filled with people from the community sitting amongst Christians learning about Jesus n me being the witness n testimony to then in Jesus name. Before coming back to the Jesus I rebels against Jesus but now back it him he forgave all the sin I did such as getting completely drunk all the time. That doesn’t mean I don’t sin now cause it’s in our nature to sin but I give to god so let’s stop judging and love by gracing bringing people into our church n give it to god when we do wrong. His the only one to judge not us!!
God bless
David Quickel
The following is the
The following is the definition of heterosexual. If you notice it is based on SEX. “Heterosexuality is romantic attraction, sexual attraction or sexual behavior between persons of opposite sex or gender in the gender binary. As a sexual orientation, heterosexuality refers to “an enduring pattern of or disposition to experience sexual, affectionate, physical or romantic attractions to persons of the opposite sex”
Some people just don’t get it.
Nlee
Unfortunately for you, none
Unfortunately for you, none of what you wrote applies at all. Marriage was never about two heterosexuals marrying. It is about a man and a woman marrying (both could be homosexuals for all we know). Only in the western world do you place so much emphasis on romantic love and sexual attraction. In other parts of the world and in other cultures, attraction is the least reason to marry. Love and attraction are the unintended perks. Most people in my culture marry out of duty and to uphold the will of natural law as well as to continue family lineage. Guess what? We have very low divorce rates up until coming to America where too many drink the Kool-aid.
Joanna
http://www.youtube.com/watch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OiDrbipW34 I would encourage you all to watch this video. Thank you for this post, Holli.
Albert
THANK YOU HOLLI For being a
THANK YOU HOLLI For being a supporter. I get offended when anti- gay people say that homosexuality is about lustful sex. That my brothers and sisters Is TOTALLY WRONG. I have GAY CHRISTIANS friends that have been celibate. They know that being gay isn’t a sin and yes they had urges of wanting to have SEX with the same gender, just how Straight people have those urges too. But my friend CONTROL their urges just how a straight person would control his. WE LGBT are not that different from Straight people. I am Gay and Christian and I like Gay Christian friends and straight christian Friends is also celibate. Sex is not the main thing of being a HOMOSEXUAL. That is the least. I like my friends is waiting for marrIage (SAME-SEX-MARRIAGE) I don’t care if your against that type of marriage. But I will wait until the right person has come into my life. so in conclusion SEX is not the main thing in my mind when being gay. It’s mostly theatre since that is my passion in life. SO STOP PUTTING SEX AFTER GAY.
Beth
I think Jesus is saying that
I think Jesus is saying that some are born gay in Matthew 19:11-12. Here’s a link to more discussion.
http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical_evidence/born_gay.html
Valerie
As the mother of a gay son,
As the mother of a gay son, my husband and I knew he was gay when he was two years old…and we have two other straight sons. He was born the way God created him. When a heterosexual couple fall in love and want to spend the rest of their lives together and start a family, we say, “Oh, they love each other so much.” When a gay couple fall in love and want to spend the rest of their lives together and start a family, we say, “It’s all about sex.” I spent five years studying the Bible in the original Hebrew and Greek with professionals who know the language better than I. The word “homosexual” doesn’t appear in the Bible until 1946! Don’t tell me you take the Bible literally until the females in your family cover their heads in worship (as clearly commanded by Paul), until you are greeting fellow believers regularly with a holy kiss (as is commanded), and until you are washing believers’ feet (as Jesus commands).
Jacob
Homosexual as a word no it
Homosexual as a word no it didn’t but the bible does say male and female and that men left there natural feelings toward woman and clinged to one another .. And that is new testiment
FIRST OF ALL I BELIEVE WE SHOULD LOVE AND UNDERSTANDING TO ALL PEOPLE HOMOSEXUAL OR NOT.. So take this as facts and love I just wanted it to be clear ..
Truth is the lady who wrote this article , is also missing a whole lot of scripture.
Jesus did say isn’t clear. Scripture that God created you male and female to be together..
, old testament law was broken when God brought down the blanket to Peter with the food on it.
Which breaks the article portion about shrimp ..plus even Jesus cooked fish.
but Christians shouldn’t be rude to homosexuals if they are it’s not biblical,
Thought according to the bible people who choose homosexuality are not equal, ( this is even new testament)
Now let me explain equal .. If you choose your choice of homosexuality or any other issue theft what ever it is , over God , you are not one with him, but if you are a Christian who chooses God over all you are one with him.
( THIS DOESN’T MEAN YOU WILL NOT STRUGGLE WITH ADDICTIONS OR TEMPTATION, you can struggle with homosexuality and be a Christians ( that is biblical ) but if you choose to be ok with your walk in that or any other sin) you have not had a heart change )
WE SHOULD LOVE ALL OF THE WORLD THE BIBLE SAYS TO. Homosexuals murders , thieves adulterers , drunkards , no matter we should love the world like Christ did..
But this does not give them salvation, salvation is a choice to have a relationship with Christ and to let other things go , but of course we have flesh and will Stumble and struggle
Biggest misconception is that people assume homosexuality was in the old testament only
Zack
No one is born gay. It is a
No one is born gay. It is a choice. Your son chose to be gay.
soubiyuki
Ezekiel 16:49
Ezekiel 16:49
New International Version (NIV)
49 “‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
FYI.
I knew that I was bisexual before I was ten years old. It had nothing to do with sex. I did not CHOOSE to go through twenty years of emotional and spiritual turmoil, spending every day of my life thinking that God hated me and that I was going to hell. No child or teenager should ever have to experience that. No one should ever feel that suicide is the better option because of those of you who persist in calling us sinners. (Which, yes, we are by nature of our overall humanity. As are you.)
If those of you who are so convinced that being gay is sinful persist in cherry-picking passages, why must it be the negative ones? Though I can’t help but notice that you’re not advocating slavery or stoning or putting women “in their place” or any of the other outdated things that are explicitly mentioned in the Bible. I am black and my husband is white. Back in the day, those against interracial marriage also thought it went against God and were quoting scripture, the same as you lot are now. I would love to hear your explanation of why you’re perfectly okay with that but not gay marriage.
Some of the comments I’m reading here break my heart. It also reminds me of why I abandoned church long ago. I love God, with all of my heart and soul and being. But some of God’s children make it very hard for me to share and enjoy my utter joy of being a Christian with other Christians.
J.
A question for the
A question for the heterosexuals above: When did you decide to be straight? You didn’t? Ah, shocking. Pretend you, the heterosexual, are the minority and that you are being asked by the church to repent and to change who you love. How does that make you feel? Probably a bit frustrated and confused to say the least because that is truly an impossible thing to do, granted you were born loving someone of the opposite sex. (And God created you too, didn’t he?) Love your neighbors people. Period. If anyone would like me to explain the actual biological, neurological, and psychological science of a lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender (I can do heterosexual too) person- don’t worry I’m getting my degree in neuroscience so I actually know this stuff- I would be happy to. Why are we condemning our brothers and sisters for things they have no control over? Also, would we even be having arguments like this if every single person truly understood the dept of the science behind homosexuality? Do not make an argument if you are not fully studied on the topic you are arguing against. (Yes I have read the bible and I too have my own opinion on its teachings- thankfully scientific facts cannot be interpreted countless ways.) Love God, love others. That is all.
Zack
Dear J. there is no
Dear J. there is no scientific evidence for a gay gene. You can choose who you love. It is a choice.
Brandon Captain
Trying to reconcile
Trying to reconcile Christianity into modern times just shows that it was fundamentally flawed to begin with.
soubiyuki
Ezekiel 16:49
Ezekiel 16:49
New International Version (NIV)
49 “‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
FYI.
I knew that I was bisexual before I was ten years old. It had nothing to do with sex. I did not CHOOSE to go through twenty years of emotional and spiritual turmoil, spending every day of my life thinking that God hated me and that I was going to hell. No child or teenager should ever have to experience that. No one should ever feel that suicide is the better option because of those of you who persist in calling us sinners. (Which, yes, we are by nature of our overall humanity. As are you.)
If those of you who are so convinced that being gay is sinful persist in cherry-picking passages, why must it be the negative ones? Though I can’t help but notice that you’re not advocating slavery or stoning or putting women “in their place” or any of the other outdated things that are explicitly mentioned in the Bible. I am black and my husband is white. Back in the day, those against interracial marriage also thought it went against God and were quoting scripture, the same as you lot are now. I would love to hear your explanation of why you’re perfectly okay with that but not gay marriage.
Some of the comments I’m reading here break my heart. It also reminds me of why I abandoned church long ago. I love God, with all of my heart and soul and being. But some of God’s children make it very hard for me to share and enjoy my utter joy of being a Christian with other Christians.
Rev Clyde Baker
Christianity, like most
Christianity, like most religions, tends to be the anchor for the culture it resides in. Despite the constant references to ‘the Bible says’, the primary reason for the reluctance to welcome LGBT Christians is this tendency to lag cultural change. In some areas that can be helpful–keeps us from diving into shark infested waters. But the push back against bringing LGBT Christians into full fellowship with straight Christians in baptism, marriage, and ordination is a horrible failure of our faith. When you can’t figure out why God said something in the Bible you have a duty to realize the Bible is no longer talking about morality. So when it prohibits murder it doesn’t take a genius to figure out the harm that is being proscribed. Clearly a moral principle there. When it prohibits shellfish it doesn’t take a genius to figure out there is no present harm being proscribed. You can cheat and say, ‘Well that was just for the nation of Israel.’ And then you can pick and choose the things you want to stick in that bucket. But that is a patently ridiculous way to gather inspiration from the Scriptures. If, instead, you let the Scriptural admonitions push you to think deeply about the harm we do each other, then the Sprit can actually teach us something. Is anyone harmed when two LGBT Christian couples make a lifetime commitment to fidelity and support in a Christian marriage? Of course not. Is anyone harmed when a Christian community excludes that couple? Of course they are.
LE
You all seem to care so much
You all seem to care so much about what God thinks of others that you forget to recognize the basic teachings of Jesus and Christianity. Love one another. If you cannot love someone who is different from you, then how can you expect God to present you with that same love.
John
Homonsexuality is wrong. It
Homonsexuality is wrong. It doesn’t mean you’re worse than anyone else. But it is a sin. The bible is clear. Paul is clear. Jesus is clear. GOD IS CLEAR. We should love homosexuals as we would love anyone else. Do not, however, say what their doing is right just so you can have the approval of the world. Pray for these people.
Liz
Thank you for this piece.
Thank you for this piece. More and more Christians are becoming enlightened about what scripture does and does not say about same sex relationships and how a follower of Jesus should think and act about lgbtq people and those who love and support them>
As the mom of a son who is gay I know how hurtful it can be when Christians talk about your child as if they are less than and that is why I have started a private online Facebook group for open minded Christian moms who have LGBTQ kids and want to develop and maintain healthy, loving, authentic relationships with their LGBTQ kids. It’s called “Serendipitydodah for Moms” and it’s an extension of my blog Serendipitydodah (a blog dedicated to LGBTQ people and friends and family members of the LGBTQ community attempting to develop and maintain healthy, loving, authentic relationships.)
Any moms of LGBTQ kids who would like to join the Facebook group can contact me by email at lizdyer55@gmail.com and put “Mom’s Facebook Group” in the subject line. The group is private so only those in the group can find it or read what is posted there. Thanks again for all you do!!
The Truth--born this way
I have a heart which wants to
I have a heart which wants to have sex with women who are not my wife. I cannot help it. I was “born this way”. The Bible says it is wrong and I know it is wrong because God’s Holy Spirit convicts me and gives me shame when I have these feelings. But, I DO NOT “claim it” as my “identity”. It is just a sexual temptation to commit a wrong behavior. The same as homosexuality. Romans 1 says we are “guilty if we support [these] things” This is a shallow, humanistic reading of the Bible.
770 account
I don’t know if it’s just me
I don’t know if it’s just me or if perhaps everyone else encountering issues with your site.
It appears as though some of the written text on your posts are running off the
screen. Can somebody else please comment and let
me know if this is happening to them too? This may be a issue with
my internet browser because I’ve had this happen previously.
Cheers
CJ
Here’s how I would respond to
Here’s how I would respond to your reasons:
1. “What did Jesus say?” Matthew 19:5, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? – Giving and OT examples about child-rearing and calling that “well-researched and faithful readings of the Bible that support full inclusion and equal rights for the LGBT community” is a bit dishonest.
2. God didn’t say “Go forth and multiply” solely for the purpose of filling the earth with people. He wanted His purpose and Kingdom advanced throughout the earth. Still does today.
3. Whose not treating them as equals? We are all equal sinners. Only saved by grace. When grace comes it transforms you into the image of God. It doesn’t keep you blindly bound in your sinfulness.
4. Anytime you choose to disregard sound doctrine to observe what’s trending in society is a mistake. Satan is the father of lies and the author of confusion in those teenagers that attempt suicide, not Christians.
Zack
Homosexuality is a sin. It
Homosexuality is a sin. It is clearly stated in 1 Corinthian 6:9-10. It is not just acts. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10-Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral nor the idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor HOMOSEXUAL OFFENDERS nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Joy
Did God not also say judge
Did God not also say judge and be judged condemn and be condemned forgive and be forgiven? So other than God whose place is it to judge? In all my life I thought God was the one who handed out judgement. That when you die its Him you face on judgement day! I feel like the ones against marriage equality are the ones who need to face judgement. Those who sin, which is all of us, will face that day so why pretend to be God and judge other sinners? Why pick and choose which sins to judge? Why present yourself in this manner when one persons choice has no effect on your life? I believe that God wanted “mankind” to love each other and let Him judge the sins and condemn those of His choosing. I am not concerned with the way other people choose to live and who they love. I am concerned with myself, my life, and my judgement day. At least I can stand proud and say no God, I did not judge them, that is your job not mine!
Alyssa
I am a christian and believe
I am a christian and believe in same sex marriage. I didn’t believe in it until I met a friend who was a lesbian. She loved and trusted God, and constantly reminded me to put him first. I wanted my friend to be happy, just like all others should feel this way for their friends to . Girls are what made her happy. I don’t understand that if God truly loves EVERYONE, then why wouldn’t he love her just because she’s lesbian? God forgives those who murder, who rape young, who sin, why can’t he forgive her for loving who she wants to love? That is what I don’t understand. I’ve read that some churches and even the Pope have I don’t know how to say this but almost redesigned their thinking about things, such as their thinking about women. Doesn’t God change his mind? How are we to know he doesn’t support it? Just because something was written down many many years ago doesn’t mean he hasn’t changed his thinking. The churches changed their minds, we change our minds. I just don’t understand why some Christians are against it. Someone please help me understand this!(:
Jan
I am a follower of Christ,
I am a follower of Christ, and yes Jesus personally never condemns homosexuality, yet when he talks about marriage, he only defines it as between a man and a woman. I am wondering for those who now celebrate the recent Supreme Court ruling, is there ever going to be a line that should not be crossed and who gets to decide that? How bout two men and three women getting married? Who gets to decide what the rules are? For me, the answer is simple. God set the standards for all areas of our lives, marriage being just one, and clearly the one most people are consumed with. Perhaps if we spent more time trying to build the fruit of the spirit into each of our lives, we would have less time to argue about this one topic with anger and arrogance (on both sides). People on both sides of the issue are picking and choosing verses out of context to defend their position. THAT is the most dangerous thing and all of this breaks the heart of God. God loves all his children and we are to love each other. I love my children, but I also taught them right from wrong for their own protection. For some reason now, those of us who believe that God designed marriage to between a man and a woman, clearly are not allowed to express our beliefs without being bullied and put down and made to feel that we are ignorant and intolerant.
Joanne
When it comes to
When it comes to homosexuality, the concept and word did not exist in the eras that any of the Bible was penned in. We also do not speak wither Aramaic, Ancient Hebrew, the dirty Greek vernacular of the time of Christ and the Apostles, nor the contemporary Latin of the same era as Christ and the Apostles. Look at any version of the Bible, printed prior to 1947 and you will not find the word in there at all – only the word Sodomite.
It is possible to say things in any of the languages mentioned above that can not be stated in contemporary English of any dialect in common usage in this day and age so every translation also has to be done with “value judgements” on the part of the translator as to exactly what a certain phrase or word actually meant to the people for whom it was originally penned.
I have heard many sermons on the subject of Lot and the Men of Sodom being homosexuality gone to extreme, but since when is putative rape equivalent to consensual sex? To me, this sounds like comparing a firing squad to a 21-gun salute. In the culture that Lot lived in, there were not fly, rental car and hotel packages and most travellers would go to the gates of a city, seek permission to enter the city, go to the public square and wait for someone to come and offer them the hospitality of food, a roof overhead for the night and safety while they were under the roof of their benefactor. Their host was responsible for their safety while they were guests in their house – a duty Lot took seriously.
Understand that Lot was not a native to Sodom. He married a woman of Sodom and was an immigrant to the city who bought his position as a gate keeper from a city official.
At that time, there were people who spent the day noting the arrivals of caravans and individuals coming into or going out of the city, many the slave of the wealthy who wanted this information for their business dealings. According to scripture, about the end of the day, two strangers approached the gate where Lot worked and he went out and bowed to them and invited them to his house for the night, promising them a feast and a place to sleep. This was not lost on the gate watchers who reported back to their masters and friends. Essentially, this was an alien inviting two important aliens into their city, bypassing the visit to the town square where the citizens of Sodom could talk to them and discern their business – which, Sodom being a city of great wealth and opulence caused the people to become wary of these strangers. When the men of Sodom, young and old, surrounded Lot’s house, it was essentially a lynch mob, Sodom style. In short a gross violation of hospitality on the part of the people of Sodom.
There is a very similar occurrence in Judges 19, involving a Levite and his concubine in the City of Gibea, where Lot and his concubine met an old man coming in from his fields and invited the Levite and his concubine directly into his home and again bypassing the town square, even though the guest was a fellow Israelite. While the crowd did not get the Levite, they did get his concubine and raped and abused her to death, which would have been the case if the crowd had gotten their hands on the Levite.
There is only one place in the Bible where the Sin of Sodom was discussed and defined in detail, and that would be in the 16th Chapter of Ezekiel. Sexual misconduct is not mentioned, but having an excess of wealth, comfort and no care to lift a finger to help the poor and needy were – and they did things, along these lines that were despicable to God and Jerusalem was told that thy made their sister Sodom seem righteous by comparison.
I have never seen anyone in the Bible being condemned by God for loving and seeing to the needs of a sinner.
Even Jesus, when asked by the Pharisees; “Teacher, what is the most important commandment?”
Jesus replied to them; “There are two. The first is to love your God with all your heart, soul and strength. The second is lie unto the first. To love your neighbor as yourself. Upon these two commandments rests the Law and the Prophets.”
In my walk with God, I have always striven to keep the primary basis of faith at the core of my relationship with God. This can be simply stated as: It is God’s to judge, the Spirit’s to convict and my job is to love others as Christ loved.
I always remember that Christ died for each and every one of us while we were still living in sin. We are also commanded to mete out grace, mercy and forgiveness as it was given to us – unconditionally and without limit. If I am to err, I would hope to err on the side of grace, mercy and forgiveness.
It is not my part to judge others nor their sins. All sin is equal in the eyes of God and the only irredeemable sin is unbelief. Judgement is God’s sole prerogative. If I judge others by the law, then I will be judged under the same law, in which lies a curse. For under the law to fail at one is to fail at all.
Peace be with you all
sheila
It is sad when everyone can
It is sad when everyone can be so concerned about other peoples sexuality and whether or not they should marry and be happy. Don’t you think we should be more concerned about murderers, child molesters and the such.
The other thing I find amusing is this statement: Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. Please let us be honest. There is not one soul in this world who will inherit the kingdom of god. Because no one truly lives by the bible.
Jethro
There are a lot of lost
There are a lot of lost people in this world. You can twist and turn and dig as you will, but at the end, GOD singled out homosexuality as an ABOMINATION and Jesus confirms this. Twist however you need to, but ask yourself this: Are you accepting this because its what God wants, or because it’s what the normal of society tells you to do? I’m with Jesus… if I’m hated because of it, so be it. To all the LGBT ‘Christians” the point is you are supposed to struggle with the weakness and overcome it. See God and he will help you. Satan has you convinced you were born that way… born with the weakness, sure we all have one or two, but not born into an un-natural, un-Godly lifestyle. That very argument is contradictive to the Bible and God’s word. When in doubt remember Jesus taught us to view religion as through the eyes of a child… take the face value and run with it. In addition King Solomon taught us not to dig until we find the answer… Digging for the answer is exactly what this is. You are trying to justify your worldly view and in turn are missing the point.
Terra
This article is perfect and
This article is perfect and so gracefully hits ever point I’ve ever tried to make. Thank you for taking the time to put this together! <3
Josiah
You support what? You support
You support what? You support sin. I hope you don’t approve of sin.
Romans 1:26-27 & 32 – For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. 32 Though they know God’s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.
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